Would Joe Louis be too small to be successful at heavyweight today ?

[SlimTrae]

When I read that Jack Johnson stated Joe was susceptible to the very punch that Max kept landing over and over, how is that skill? Rematch he won by taking it to Max.

Billy Conn didn't out brawl Joe, he out boxed him and then Joe did to him what Wilder does....catch up to his foe with that eraser. Conn landed that left hook over & over. At times he threw 10-15 nonstop. But he stayed inside, where Joe eventually started landing that uppercut and after taking so many, Conn wilted.


Take that Joe and he beats Lennox Lewis? Vitali? Maybe he catches Wladimir, but in his prime he was a master clincher with a huge advantage with his jab/reach.

@ 6,2 he has good height, but was very economical with his punch out put albeit very accurate when he did throw. He wasn't very fluid, rather methodical. And his skills was against what he himself called was the bum of the month club.


Kethcel, Braddock, Schmelling, Walcott, Charles, Conn, 2-ton Galento, Baer. Are these the top fighters Joe beat? How would they do against Lennox, Vitali, AJ, Deontay, Fury?


Depending on when they fought Walcott or Charles determines how they'd fare as those guys fought WAY past their primes. Didn't Walcott fight Louis after 18 years at pro vs 14? One started in 1930, the other 1934. Today when that happens we take it into account.

Louis has the benefit of being a golden age fighter where we respect our previous era, then meticulously brake the future generation apart with critiques we over look for fighters of yesteryear. Joe does well in this era, but not sure he would be a hall of famer, at least not on the first ballot.

[Master]

Joe Louis did not fight Stanley Kethcel but Joe was a deadly puncher. His style of boxing would not be out of place in this era.

[Master]

If he had the healthcare, diet, etc of today's athlete then he'd probably be around Lennox/Evander size.

He wasn't a small man and his stamina and punching power would still see him effective.

Greatest heavyweight champion of all time!

Second only to Muhammad Ali.

[Manos de Piedra]

If grandad Povetkin rattled AJ then I think Joe Louis' diverse and superior punches put him away.

If Cunningham put Fury on his arse then so can Joe Louis, not too sure he would stay down after seeing the wilder fight.

If Fury made Wilder look like an amateur then so will Joe Louis.

But he would struggle against the true skilled big man in Lennox Lewis but not these big men we have now.

[Ron Swanson]

Size is overrated. That's what she said . The field over the last 30 + years is littered with guys 165 to 190ish who packed on a few pounds and competed at heavy. I don't doubt for a minute Louis would pick up a belt or 3 and maybe that's in large part to the wba having 101 available. But seriously his talent, skill and commitment compared to many of todays heavies puts them to shame. And I guarantee he wasn't shoving a suitcase of illegal banned substances in his arse and veins to help him along. Let Louis land a right hand on Wilder..going backwards like the slow motion glacial mass that is Breazeale did and see how that goes. We seem to always speak of yesterdays fighters like they're on some literal evolutionary chart and came to the ring in loin cloths and carrying clubs. This sport is more mental than physical too. It's a two way street. I'd say if many of todays comforts, politics in the sport and everything being at a fingers touch were stripped away from todays fighters and they were dropped into yesteryear v top guys they'd be in for some real trouble.

She only says that to make you feel better.

[El Kabong]

If he had the healthcare, diet, etc of today's athlete then he'd probably be around Lennox/Evander size.

He wasn't a small man and his stamina and punching power would still see him effective.

Greatest heavyweight champion of all time!

Second only to Muhammad Ali.

25 successful consecutive title defenses and he missed years of his prime...so he's statistically the best by a mile.


What makes Ali so great? He wasn't the youngest champ, he wasn't the oldest champ, he wasn't the champ for the longest period of time. Was it his competition that made him great Then how would his competition handle other eras? Joe Frazier would give such hell to the division in any other era? Foreman maybe depending on where his mind was at the time....Shavers? Quarry? Norton? Ron Lyle? I mean they're ok but why do they look so impressive on Ali's resume and the guys Joe Louis beat don't look as impressive? They were the best fighters out there at the time and Louis won 25 title defenses in a row how many did Ali string together? Also know this Ali prompted his supporters to say "I'm the greatest of all time" and he talked and talked and talked and he was a cult of personality he had the media and counter culture behind him he was riding a wave of popularity...Joe Louis didn't have the luxury of having such an attitude but he always got the business done in the ring!

Also Marciano going 49-0-0 is pretty fucking impressive and I don't really care about "his era was weak!" it's 49 in a row and he didn't duck anyone did he?

Fighters can have shitty records and still be good fighters. Fighters can have a limited style but give the better fighter Hell for one reason or another. 25 in a row is a record,nobody has beaten it and nobody is going to beat it.


But say someone is the greatest and it's not Ali and it's a federal case

[Master]

Luckily boxing isn't soley based on statistics and you partly make the case for me why Muhammid Ali is the best heavyweight of all time. He was not the youngest, oldest, longest champion but still considered the best by the majority of people. His competition was great Joe Frazier, Liston and Foreman could have been champions longer if they lived in another period.

It is well known why Ali did not make consecutive defences

Ali was all business in the ring and did not always have that popularity that you claim he rode.

There is no federal case or attack just look with your eyes and appreciate his boxing qualities.

Notice I did not criticise Louis or Rocky.

[El Kabong]

Luckily boxing isn't soley based on statistics and you partly make the case for me why Muhammid Ali is the best heavyweight of all time. He was not the youngest, oldest, longest champion but still considered the best by the majority of people. His competition was great Joe Frazier, Liston and Foreman could have been champions longer if they lived in another period.

It is well known why Ali did not make consecutive defences

Ali was all business in the ring and did not always have that popularity that you claim he rode.

There is no federal case or attack just look with your eyes and appreciate his boxing qualities.

Notice I did not criticise Louis or Rocky.

You said Ali was ahead of Joe Louis I said otherwise. I then provided examples as to why Joe Louis was better. I know that you're misunderstanding what I'm saying because you're assuming a different tone than I wrote my post in. Ali was a great boxer and unique in that he was the champion but also a celebrity at the same time. I don't want to feel forced to bow before an Ali statue every time I mention his name. He's a great great great boxer that I don't think is the greatest of all time despite what he said about himself but don't expect me to kiss his ass. He gets the respect he gets from me what can I tell you?

[SlimTrae]

Joe Louis did not fight Stanley Kethcel but Joe was a deadly puncher. His style of boxing would not be out of place in this era.

So I went boxrecing....

He would do well. I just don't think he could have beaten a prime Lennox, because he had skills to go with size and reach. we'll never know, because HW's back then weren't as mobile as guys like Ali to Fury. A lot of movement. Where Joe was deadly inside. Outside? again his era didn't have the mobility post Ali, IMO.

[Master]

Joe Louis did not fight Stanley Kethcel but Joe was a deadly puncher. His style of boxing would not be out of place in this era.

So I went boxrecing....

He would do well. I just don't think he could have beaten a prime Lennox, because he had skills to go with size and reach. we'll never know, because HW's back then weren't as mobile as guys like Ali to Fury. A lot of movement. Where Joe was deadly inside. Outside? again his era didn't have the mobility post Ali, IMO.

Anything Louis could hit, he could hurt and if it was the right spot they were knocked out. He was flat footed and could be out boxed until he caught up with you. He had that famous saying "you can run but you can't hide".

[Primo Carnera]

Luckily boxing isn't soley based on statistics and you partly make the case for me why Muhammid Ali is the best heavyweight of all time. He was not the youngest, oldest, longest champion but still considered the best by the majority of people. His competition was great Joe Frazier, Liston and Foreman could have been champions longer if they lived in another period.

It is well known why Ali did not make consecutive defences

Ali was all business in the ring and did not always have that popularity that you claim he rode.

There is no federal case or attack just look with your eyes and appreciate his boxing qualities.

Notice I did not criticise Louis or Rocky.

You said Ali was ahead of Joe Louis I said otherwise. I then provided examples as to why Joe Louis was better. I know that you're misunderstanding what I'm saying because you're assuming a different tone than I wrote my post in. Ali was a great boxer and unique in that he was the champion but also a celebrity at the same time. I don't want to feel forced to bow before an Ali statue every time I mention his name. He's a great great great boxer that I don't think is the greatest of all time despite what he said about himself but don't expect me to kiss his ass. He gets the respect he gets from me what can I tell you?

I’m with you on this, people have this beautiful ideal of Ali. As a Boxer, Fighter, call it what you like, he wasn’t the greatest. As a sporting icon , we’ll thats clearly a different story.
I have to say, if he hadn’t of lost the peak 3 years of his career , it would be a very different conversation , I’m certain of that. But it is what it is and it’s not gonna change.
I know what you mean about how we’re not allowed to even very slightly criticise Ali. When Floyd pointed out about him losing his Title to a 7 fight novice when he was 34 years old , people wouldn’t see it for what it’s meant. You can’t argue against the point unfortunately.

[Master]

Luckily boxing isn't soley based on statistics and you partly make the case for me why Muhammid Ali is the best heavyweight of all time. He was not the youngest, oldest, longest champion but still considered the best by the majority of people. His competition was great Joe Frazier, Liston and Foreman could have been champions longer if they lived in another period.

It is well known why Ali did not make consecutive defences

Ali was all business in the ring and did not always have that popularity that you claim he rode.

There is no federal case or attack just look with your eyes and appreciate his boxing qualities.

Notice I did not criticise Louis or Rocky.

You said Ali was ahead of Joe Louis I said otherwise. I then provided examples as to why Joe Louis was better. I know that you're misunderstanding what I'm saying because you're assuming a different tone than I wrote my post in. Ali was a great boxer and unique in that he was the champion but also a celebrity at the same time. I don't want to feel forced to bow before an Ali statue every time I mention his name. He's a great great great boxer that I don't think is the greatest of all time despite what he said about himself but don't expect me to kiss his ass. He gets the respect he gets from me what can I tell you?

I’m with you on this, people have this beautiful ideal of Ali. As a Boxer, Fighter, call it what you like, he wasn’t the greatest. As a sporting icon , we’ll thats clearly a different story.
I have to say, if he hadn’t of lost the peak 3 years of his career , it would be a very different conversation , I’m certain of that. But it is what it is and it’s not gonna change.
I know what you mean about how we’re not allowed to even very slightly criticise Ali. When Floyd pointed out about him losing his Title to a 7 fight novice when he was 34 years old , people wouldn’t see it for what it’s meant. You can’t argue against the point unfortunately.

You can argue all you want but you are intelligent enough to know that Ali was old in terms of ring years. He was at the tail end of a hard and distinguished career and still avenged the loss.

[ykdadamaja]

Yes. Louis was too small and too motionless.

[Primo Carnera]

Luckily boxing isn't soley based on statistics and you partly make the case for me why Muhammid Ali is the best heavyweight of all time. He was not the youngest, oldest, longest champion but still considered the best by the majority of people. His competition was great Joe Frazier, Liston and Foreman could have been champions longer if they lived in another period.

It is well known why Ali did not make consecutive defences

Ali was all business in the ring and did not always have that popularity that you claim he rode.

There is no federal case or attack just look with your eyes and appreciate his boxing qualities.

Notice I did not criticise Louis or Rocky.

You said Ali was ahead of Joe Louis I said otherwise. I then provided examples as to why Joe Louis was better. I know that you're misunderstanding what I'm saying because you're assuming a different tone than I wrote my post in. Ali was a great boxer and unique in that he was the champion but also a celebrity at the same time. I don't want to feel forced to bow before an Ali statue every time I mention his name. He's a great great great boxer that I don't think is the greatest of all time despite what he said about himself but don't expect me to kiss his ass. He gets the respect he gets from me what can I tell you?

I’m with you on this, people have this beautiful ideal of Ali. As a Boxer, Fighter, call it what you like, he wasn’t the greatest. As a sporting icon , we’ll thats clearly a different story.
I have to say, if he hadn’t of lost the peak 3 years of his career , it would be a very different conversation , I’m certain of that. But it is what it is and it’s not gonna change.
I know what you mean about how we’re not allowed to even very slightly criticise Ali. When Floyd pointed out about him losing his Title to a 7 fight novice when he was 34 years old , people wouldn’t see it for what it’s meant. You can’t argue against the point unfortunately.

You can argue all you want but you are intelligent enough to know that Ali was old in terms of ring years. He was at the tail end of a hard and distinguished career and still avenged the loss.

firstly you’ve got to understand that this is no “Bill Paxtom” style witch hunt. Ali was amazing and I love him.
But you have to be honest. When you say Old in terms of ring years, well some of that was his own doing and choice.
1. The way he chose to fight against monsters like Foreman and Shavers. I’m not saying he was wrong, it was incredible, but getting hit a lot will take its toll.
2. Fighting in places that will drain the life out of you like Manila and Zaire. But that’s where the money was.
But on the spin side , he also had 3 years rest as well, so that should balance it out a bit.

[Master]

Luckily boxing isn't soley based on statistics and you partly make the case for me why Muhammid Ali is the best heavyweight of all time. He was not the youngest, oldest, longest champion but still considered the best by the majority of people. His competition was great Joe Frazier, Liston and Foreman could have been champions longer if they lived in another period.

It is well known why Ali did not make consecutive defences

Ali was all business in the ring and did not always have that popularity that you claim he rode.

There is no federal case or attack just look with your eyes and appreciate his boxing qualities.

Notice I did not criticise Louis or Rocky.

You said Ali was ahead of Joe Louis I said otherwise. I then provided examples as to why Joe Louis was better. I know that you're misunderstanding what I'm saying because you're assuming a different tone than I wrote my post in. Ali was a great boxer and unique in that he was the champion but also a celebrity at the same time. I don't want to feel forced to bow before an Ali statue every time I mention his name. He's a great great great boxer that I don't think is the greatest of all time despite what he said about himself but don't expect me to kiss his ass. He gets the respect he gets from me what can I tell you?

I’m with you on this, people have this beautiful ideal of Ali. As a Boxer, Fighter, call it what you like, he wasn’t the greatest. As a sporting icon , we’ll thats clearly a different story.
I have to say, if he hadn’t of lost the peak 3 years of his career , it would be a very different conversation , I’m certain of that. But it is what it is and it’s not gonna change.
I know what you mean about how we’re not allowed to even very slightly criticise Ali. When Floyd pointed out about him losing his Title to a 7 fight novice when he was 34 years old , people wouldn’t see it for what it’s meant. You can’t argue against the point unfortunately.

You can argue all you want but you are intelligent enough to know that Ali was old in terms of ring years. He was at the tail end of a hard and distinguished career and still avenged the loss.

firstly you’ve got to understand that this is no “Bill Paxtom” style witch hunt. Ali was amazing and I love him.
But you have to be honest. When you say Old in terms of ring years, well some of that was his own doing and choice.
1. The way he chose to fight against monsters like Foreman and Shavers. I’m not saying he was wrong, it was incredible, but getting hit a lot will take its toll.
2. Fighting in places that will drain the life out of you like Manila and Zaire. But that’s where the money was.
But on the spin side , he also had 3 years rest as well, so that should balance it out a bit.

If life was that simple where you can pick and choose who and the locations you fight you would be just another heavyweight. Those are the fights that make him the best heavyweight ever. The 3 years out hurt the momentum he was on and made him a less mobile fighter which meant he had to show his resilience and courage. I amsure Ali would have preferred to have danced his way to victory and use his boxing skills.

I know you are and El Kabong are not hating but I am pointing out holes in the critique of him.