"London is no longer an English city" - John Cleese exposes himself as evil "racist"

[Fenster]

I've heard a couple of people use that Tokyo/Japan comparison, they were called racists as it implies you think "Englishness" means white. And the common theme is nothing defines white Englishness or Britishness apart from being evil racists.

What winds me up is people can't offer their own experiences and observations without some 20-30 year-old "educated victim" telling them they're an evil cunt who owes them something.

Old girl, born in London, rings radio station to say - I agree with Cleese, nobody talks English anymore at bus stops and shops, nobody even smiles at me, it used to be more friendly, the white people don't speak English (she obviously means all the Eastern Euros) - she's an evil racist.

Middle age black man (windrush parents), born in London, says - I agree with Cleese, people used to offer the elderly/disabled a seat on public transport, hold doors open, now they stare out the windows or at their phones - he's an uncle Tom.

An old Asian/Indian man, lived in London 50 years, says - I agree with Cleese, driving has become unbearable, all they do his honk the horn and shout, rush, rush, rush like back home. So many people.

Now, when one or two people say it we can brush it off as paranoia/personal feelings, it's common for people to confuse their own personal lives with the wider reality, however, when fucking thousands are saying the same thing, then maybe they have a point.

[Fenster]

Beanz, why do people like Dom, Lily, Billy Bragg and the like choose to live in a 96% white area, though? Old English country towns/villages, isolated, beautiful places?

What is different from the majority asian/muslim areas? Black? Eastern European?

[Beanz]

Beanz, why do people like Dom, Lily, Billy Bragg and the like choose to live in a 96% white area, though? Old English country towns/villages, isolated, beautiful places?

What is different from the majority asian/muslim areas? Black? Eastern European?

Why do I speak for them? Honestly ask yourself why would I know?

Maybe because when you get older, and specifically when you have kids, you do not want to put up with the sheer volume of people, traffic and hecticness that defines living in a big city. When you have kids you usually need a larger property and the practicalities of bringing up kids , the school run, sleepless nights etc makes commuting a non-option. So you move. I lived in a tent in Biggin Hill and then a shared room in a house in Bromley for about 8 months but I could not have afforded to move into anywhere bigger if I had kids back then. Even though I was earning very good money.

If you think that living in what you consider a typically Old English country town or village is an indication of those moving there being racist (and i know you don't but that is precisely the argument PJW and other racist ex-pats make) then that seems to me to be projection.

Why didn't you ask about Black British celebrity moving out into the countryside?

Big cities even with largely white populations are inevitably going to have more crime, pollution etc.

Billy Bragg is just a bloke from Barking who happens to be a musician whose lives are defined by playing traveling for much of there working lives often to a new town every night for months at a time. He is also a brilliant example of somebody who loves, documents and celebrates England. Why should that mean he has to live in the place where he was born?

[Fenster]

Beanz, i'm asking your opinion about white people who choose to live in all-white parts of the country, that's all. Attempting to understand it? Lovely spacious villages? Farms? Acres of land? Wonderful islolated coastal towns? Beautiful beaches. Church bells. Fish and chips. Heaven.

You often defend the privileged, rich and famous, that's all. Feel free to add any rich black/asian hypocrite to the white celebrities roster i've named.

Did these people ever scout Tower Hamlets for a home? Wonder why?

[Beanz]

I've heard a couple of people use that Tokyo/Japan comparison, they were called racists as it implies you think "Englishness" means white. And the common theme is nothing defines white Englishness or Britishness apart from being evil racists.

What winds me up is people can't offer their own experiences and observations without some 20-30 year-old "educated victim" telling them they're an evil cunt who owes them something.

Old girl, born in London, rings radio station to say - I agree with Cleese, nobody talks English anymore at bus stops and shops, nobody even smiles at me, it used to be more friendly, the white people don't speak English (she obviously means all the Eastern Euros) - she's an evil racist.

Middle age black man (windrush parents), born in London, says - I agree with Cleese, people used to offer the elderly/disabled a seat on public transport, hold doors open, now they stare out the windows or at their phones - he's an uncle Tom.

An old Asian/Indian man, lived in London 50 years, says - I agree with Cleese, driving has become unbearable, all they do his honk the horn and shout, rush, rush, rush like back home. So many people.

Now, when one or two people say it we can brush it off as paranoia/personal feelings, it's common for people to confuse their own personal lives with the wider reality, however, when fucking thousands are saying the same thing, then maybe they have a point.

The Tokyo/Japan thing is not a great comparison to make though. Many Japanese are notoriously racist. Racist ironically mainly because the country itself was run by those seeking to ape white, mainly colonial powers after years of resisting outside influences. Just like many of the countries Japan rushed to emulate may not have been the greatest example to copy, I don't think Japan and Tokyo are some kind of ideal to strive toward either.

Yes of course there will be idiots calling any conversation about the changing demographics of Britain an example of 'Evil Racists' but it is just as misleading to pretend they represent a seismic portion of British society as it is to pretend that all Brits are racist. I am just as exasperated at false outrage from those across the political spectrum, at perceived sleights and injustices that are not only directed toward them, but often quite benign and valid opinions. It does not mean though that when professional agitators like Watson use the same outrage tactics to pretend to speak for people who clearly do not share their vacuous stupidity, they should not be challenged on such assumptions.

A lot of the complaints you related seem to be about society in general across the west. There are plenty of really rude horrible old people around and plenty of white English bastards of all ages.

[Gandalf]

I've heard a couple of people use that Tokyo/Japan comparison, they were called racists as it implies you think "Englishness" means white. And the common theme is nothing defines white Englishness or Britishness apart from being evil racists.

What winds me up is people can't offer their own experiences and observations without some 20-30 year-old "educated victim" telling them they're an evil cunt who owes them something.

Old girl, born in London, rings radio station to say - I agree with Cleese, nobody talks English anymore at bus stops and shops, nobody even smiles at me, it used to be more friendly, the white people don't speak English (she obviously means all the Eastern Euros) - she's an evil racist.

Middle age black man (windrush parents), born in London, says - I agree with Cleese, people used to offer the elderly/disabled a seat on public transport, hold doors open, now they stare out the windows or at their phones - he's an uncle Tom.

An old Asian/Indian man, lived in London 50 years, says - I agree with Cleese, driving has become unbearable, all they do his honk the horn and shout, rush, rush, rush like back home. So many people.

Now, when one or two people say it we can brush it off as paranoia/personal feelings, it's common for people to confuse their own personal lives with the wider reality, however, when fucking thousands are saying the same thing, then maybe they have a point.

There is a racial element to that argument, but by the same token you could say 'What if Tokyo became dominated by Filipinos?' it would still mean the loss of traditional Japanese culture. There is nothing wrong with being foreign, but it is inarguable that it dilutes a native culture. My mate is married to a Filipino and she brings with her the culture and even family. It is understandable. If you import 10 million version of me, Walrus, and Lyle, you are not like to be getting much J-pop or anime fetishism going on. At least I am good enough to only import albums. In my case you would be getting Morrissey, Partridge, and Orwell. Interestingly enough The Guardian gave the new Morrissey album a predicable drubbing. It is of course a solid covers album and his voice is as good as always.

I also dispute the argument that 'Many Japanese are notoriously racist'. That is in itself a pretty bigoted generalisation to make and from someone who has never set foot inside Japan despite saying he would like to go. I know people who live in Japan and have families there and are quite content and not moaning about excessive racism. I have been there several times myself and always had a very pleasant time and been helped when lost every time as I cannot navigate. My only complaint is the food as I am a picky eater, but otherwise, it is a beautiful country, but I am sure there are some good old fashioned racists like anywhere.

The irony here though is that the ones The Guardian quotes as having an issue with Cleese are indeed all leafy white suburbs types. Lily Allen still hasn't taken in a migrant yet either. What a racist! At least John Cleese is honest. I think the left likes to virtue signal a lot and use others tax money, but would never really want to live in a no go zone or open their house to a non background checked economic migrant. Otherwise, they really would just do it.

Cleese says the UK has gone wrong and has left and good for him I say.

[Beanz]

You dispute the fact that anyone can be racist unless you deem them to be. That is the ludicrousness of your argument. There are few bigger virtue signalers on the forum than you, an ex-pat bigging up the English who choose to leave rather than stay and fight for, and contribute towards, the type of England they want.

[El Kabong]

I'm sure John Cleese isn't some sort of White Supremacist Nazi figure and there's surely a good explanation for his misspeaking/wrongthink....

[Beanz]

I'm sure John Cleese isn't some sort of White Supremacist Nazi figure and there's surely a good explanation for his misspeaking/wrongthink....

It's called Free Speech and respecting the fact that someone can have a different opinion to you. That is part of being English. You should try it. PJW does not seem to understand that. Which is why he is not a great example of an Englishman.

[El Kabong]

It's called Free Speech and respecting the fact that someone can have a different opinion to you. That is part of being English. You should try it. PJW does not seem to understand that. Which is why he is not a great example of an Englishman.

I'm well aware of what free speech is and isn't I'm having a laugh at the absurdity of how the UK is handling the situation these days. I bring up Cleese mocking Nazi's in an episode of Fawlty Towers because Count Dankula makes a video of him being a cheeky boy and turning his girlfriend's (now wife) pug into a Nazi and he is CHARGED WITH A HATE CRIME, he's threatened with jail, he's been made to pay fines and for fucking what? He was doing nothing any other comedian in the 20th century did and he's not celebrating Nazis I wouldn't think the 3 actual Nazis left on planet Earth would be all "Wunderbar! Hey guys a Pug has joined our ranks! Ist das nicht das Beste? Sie sind die überlegene Rasse!" the fucking mindset one has to have to consider it "racist hate speech" is scary to be quite honest. I've met some dumb people in my life but I'm not so certain I've met anyone so dumb as to believe Dankula turned his now wife's pug into a follower of Hitler or that Cleese is some sort of hatemonger for daring to notice the dramatic demographic shift in London over the course of his life.

I know jokes are up for interpretation and that everything might not garner a laugh or even a hearty chuckle but for fucks sake getting so offended the law is called on the comedian in question says quite a lot about the fucking state of freedom of speech in your neck of the woods. Cleese made a comment, he's not wrong AT ALL, and people will now attack him for daring to notice the changes....what a time to be alive.


You don't think PJW is a good example of an "Englishman" ....alright then who is? I'd imagine you wouldn't be listing out Churchill, Rhodes, Isaac Newton, Sir Walter Raleigh, Charles Darwin, William Shakespeare, Henry VIII, Earnest Shackleton, Captain James Cook, General Montgomery, Geoffrey Chaucer, but hell maybe you would...who qualifies as "representative of England" certainly not John Cleese now?

[Beanz]

It's called Free Speech and respecting the fact that someone can have a different opinion to you. That is part of being English. You should try it. PJW does not seem to understand that. Which is why he is not a great example of an Englishman.

I'm well aware of what free speech is and isn't I'm having a laugh at the absurdity of how the UK is handling the situation these days. I bring up Cleese mocking Nazi's in an episode of Fawlty Towers because Count Dankula makes a video of him being a cheeky boy and turning his girlfriend's (now wife) pug into a Nazi and he is CHARGED WITH A HATE CRIME, he's threatened with jail, he's been made to pay fines and for fucking what? He was doing nothing any other comedian in the 20th century did and he's not celebrating Nazis I wouldn't think the 3 actual Nazis left on planet Earth would be all "Wunderbar! Hey guys a Pug has joined our ranks! Ist das nicht das Beste? Sie sind die überlegene Rasse!" the fucking mindset one has to have to consider it "racist hate speech" is scary to be quite honest. I've met some dumb people in my life but I'm not so certain I've met anyone so dumb as to believe Dankula turned his now wife's pug into a follower of Hitler or that Cleese is some sort of hatemonger for daring to notice the dramatic demographic shift in London over the course of his life.

I know jokes are up for interpretation and that everything might not garner a laugh or even a hearty chuckle but for fucks sake getting so offended the law is called on the comedian in question says quite a lot about the fucking state of freedom of speech in your neck of the woods. Cleese made a comment, he's not wrong AT ALL, and people will now attack him for daring to notice the changes....what a time to be alive.


You don't think PJW is a good example of an "Englishman" ....alright then who is? I'd imagine you wouldn't be listing out Churchill, Rhodes, Isaac Newton, Sir Walter Raleigh, Charles Darwin, William Shakespeare, Henry VIII, Earnest Shackleton, Captain James Cook, General Montgomery, Geoffrey Chaucer, but hell maybe you would...who qualifies as "representative of England" certainly not John Cleese now?

I think you have no idea what free speech is to be honest, and you most certainly are not just having a laugh about it. It is a crusade much more vocal and shouty than any of the people simply expressing opinions you seek to terminate by misrepresentation. The point is that you have been dictating to us in the UK here on the forum, exactly what free speech should mean, relentlessly, for years now. Not just expressing your view but insisting that we all must adopt your definition. Now you telling us what it means to be English. Just like you did with the insulting derogatory assumption that a steroid abusing WWF wrestler was someone we should all hold in high esteem.

You are eager to believe Watson, a fringe racist hipster that the majority of the British public have even heard of. Why? because he is willing to lie to you and pretend that Dom Joly, who is abut as mainstream as a TV comedian could get is now magically MR far left because he dared to comment on Cleese's tweet. So you don't believe in free speech at all really.

The point is no one figure can be representative of what it means to be English but all those you foist upon us and hold in such high esteem are nothing of the kind. Milo? fucking give me a break Benjamin who came last and could not get elected , Robinson who did so badly he had to give up his deposit and then you bring up Dankula a fucking nobody who is Scottish...fucking hell man, Maybe keep your powder dry if you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Dark Lord Al]

I have never been a huge fan of Cleese however he is bang on, one of the reasons I don't go out in London anymore.
Factually he is right, but i would still class London as an English city even if only by location.

[Beanz]

I have never been a huge fan of Cleese however he is bang on, one of the reasons I don't go out in London anymore.
Factually he is right, but i would still class London as an English city even if only by location.

But then you call Liverpool 'Cesspool' when the majority of English people would see it as a city with very important cultural highlights.

[X]

Who cares what some has-been from Weston super mare thinks?

Ironically, his home town isn't a Somerset town any more either, its full of Brummies and Welsh 😀

[Gandalf]

@Fenster @smashup

I think the both of you live in London or have lived in London. What are your honest takes on the city today? How do you feel about life there? About the changes? The pros? The cons? All of that.