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Thread: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

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    Default Re: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

    It was a strange one given that he was upright in good time, responding to the referees instructions. You'd think he'd give him every opportunity to continue and decided that was the time to call it. There we're no histrionics from AJ or his team, a token protest from AJ himself but that was it. They knew he was toast so the ref you would have to say did a good job. He wasn't getting back into that.

    They seemed to speak quite a bit in the corner before the ref waved it off.
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    Default Re: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

    Agreed AJ didn't seem too fussed it was waved off or put up any protest and we've seen many boxers kick off when they want to continue.

    See Lewis v McCall and Frank Maloney (now penisless) having a go afterwards
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    Default Re: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

    It was a weird stoppage but not a terrible one. The ref told him to walk forward multiple times and AJ just stood there.

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    Default Re: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

    As many fighters have said “when you start looking to your corner you’re asking out, all fighters know this” add that the ref repeatedly asked him to step forward and he didn’t means good stoppage. How long had it been, 20 seconds? I’ll go count and edit this

    Edit-24 seconds before he waved it off, that’s a long time
    Last edited by Ron Swanson; 06-04-2019 at 02:21 PM.

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    Default Re: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

    It was a strange one. My initial position was that it was an early stoppage as Joshua was having a nightmare but he didn't seem 'hurt'. I mean obviously he must have been to keep going down, but he certainly didn't get Fury'ed or anything like that. I assumed Joshua was being given extra time as he was the money man and he wasn't wobbling about or doing anything strange. He seemed to have his senses, though by walking backwards, hands down, eating punches in the 6th, maybe he didn't. But yes, he had a massive amount of time and seemed to show no desire to continue. You would never see James Toney acting like that. He would just shake his head, sneer, hold his hands up, and get back on with it. Joshua might have his Gold medal, but he wasn't born to fight like a Toney or a Calzaghe. Those guys took the punches and if they went down then straight back on with it.

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    Default Re: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

    Joshua did step forward when asked and removed his hands from the ropes, he then stepped back. All the while the ref is holding his gum-shield in his left hand whilst counting with his right. Joshua isn't unresponsive, he's shocked at it being waved off.

    I'm not disputing the refs decision, merely stating Joshua acted like a fighter expecting his gum-shield to be replaced after he'd obeyed the refs command.

    There's literally dozens and dozens of other refs who would have put the gum-shield back in his mouth or handed it to the corner to rinse let alone took hold of his gloves when he stepped forward. Wiped them.

    Does anyone seriously think Jack Reiss or Steve Smoger or Micky Vann or Kenny Bayless or Steve Willis would have acted the same way?
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    Default Re: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Joshua did step forward when asked and removed his hands from the ropes, he then stepped back. All the while the ref is holding his gum-shield in his left hand whilst counting with his right. Joshua isn't unresponsive, he's shocked at it being waved off.

    I'm not disputing the refs decision, merely stating Joshua acted like a fighter expecting his gum-shield to be replaced after he'd obeyed the refs command.

    There's literally dozens and dozens of other refs who would have put the gum-shield back in his mouth or handed it to the corner to rinse let alone took hold of his gloves when he stepped forward. Wiped them.

    Does anyone seriously think Jack Reiss or Steve Smoger or Micky Vann or Kenny Bayless or Steve Willis would have acted the same way?
    I agree that he didn't quit, but I think the ref (who lets not forget is a foot away from the fighter.) made a good stoppage. maybe he should've given the gum shield to the corner to rinse and put back in, but maybe he didn't bother because he knew it was over.
    at the end of the day, this is all periphery. Even Eddie admitted, the fight was done.
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    Default Re: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    As many fighters have said “when you start looking to your corner you’re asking out, all fighters know this” add that the ref repeatedly asked him to step forward and he didn’t means good stoppage. How long had it been, 20 seconds? I’ll go count and edit this

    Edit-24 seconds before he waved it off, that’s a long time
    Many fighters have said that's nonsense too. One fighter looks at his corner for help another to signal they're fine.

    It's utterly irrelevant counting seconds, boxing history is littered with "long counts," and the refs judgment influence the outcome every week.

    Not sure if you're old enough to remember this epic, but Corrales has at least double the time Joshua has here.


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    Default Re: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    As many fighters have said “when you start looking to your corner you’re asking out, all fighters know this” add that the ref repeatedly asked him to step forward and he didn’t means good stoppage. How long had it been, 20 seconds? I’ll go count and edit this

    Edit-24 seconds before he waved it off, that’s a long time
    Many fighters have said that's nonsense too. One fighter looks at his corner for help another to signal they're fine.

    It's utterly irrelevant counting seconds, boxing history is littered with "long counts," and the refs judgment influence the outcome every week.

    Not sure if you're old enough to remember this epic, but Corrales has at least double the time Joshua has here.


    Yes, historically many fights have been messed up including your linked fight. You are supposed to be ready to fight after 10 seconds, not just off the mat. 24 seconds had passed and Joshua hadn’t proven to the 3rd man he was ready to fight. You know as well as anyone Joshua wanted out of that fight, whether he “quit” is up to interpretation. But what is clear is he wanted out. I’m in no way insulting the man, I’m just not going to say “he’s my countryman so I will excuse everything, he was simply waiting on the gum shield” because he wasn’t. How many people have said he seemed relieved afterwards including his own promoter? Why on earth would his own promoter say he was relieved if he was simply waiting on his gumshield? Answer is he wouldn’t be relieved, he would be upset because he would feel he had his titles stolen. Joshua doesn’t feel he had his titles stolen because he knows like I know and you know if you will look past biases that Joshua was done. The fight was over. Someone just needed to make it official. He looked for his corner to end it, they didn’t so he made sure the ref ended it by not giving the ref the indications he wanted to continue. Some call that quitting, the terminology is really irrelevant though. Joshua knows, Hearn knows, I know he wanted out of the fight. If you don’t know that you are just oblivious. I don’t think you are oblivious.

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    Default Re: AJ didn't quit, he was waiting for the ref to replace his gum-shield. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    “he’s my countryman so I will excuse everything, he was simply waiting on the gum shield”
    I haven't made a single excuse for his loss, you're the guy spinning the narrative when I haven't disputed the ref's decision or AJ's defeat? Why would you possibly need to count seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    He looked for his corner to end it, they didn’t so he made sure the ref ended it by not giving the ref the indications he wanted to continue.
    When the ref waved it off AJ wasn't looking at his corner he was staring directly at the ref following his directions. However, if it makes you feel better to believe he dogged it, fine. I was merely asking if anyone else wondered why the ref didn't replace the gum-shield? Many official reports don't even mention the shield coming out? One claimed the ref didn't pick it up when he clearly did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Joshua doesn’t feel he had his titles stolen because he knows like I know and you know if you will look past biases that Joshua was done. The fight was over. Someone just needed to make it official.
    I have never once disputed that.
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