Does Joshua look more beatable after tonight?

[El Kabong]

Well he certainly did a great Bruno impersonation stumbling around like a drunken wildebeest. Not holding when he was hurt.... "clinching is horrible, it's awful" shut up, it's the SMART MOVE, you clinch, you push off, you use that until the ref warns you or starts taking points, these are weapons to use at your disposal.

The most demoralizing thing about this loss is that it wasn't a 1 lucky punch landing flush and rocking AJ for more than 10 seconds or a follow up after something like that. It wasn't AJ gassing out swinging for the fences....this was AJ getting into a trading battle and getting caught again, again, again, again and never learning or making adjustments. That's more than just a momentary lack of focus, that's more than someone throwing the right punch at the right time and landing clean it's someone seeing an opening inherent in AJ's style and exploiting it.

Andy Ruiz didn't lay the blueprint down in toto, but he got a really good rough draft in for people to follow. I'm not sure Wilder could follow it, I'm not sure Fury could follow it, but there are other fighters who certainly could follow it if AJ doesn't learn from his mistakes.



The ONLY good thing is perhaps this makes AJ-Wilder or Wilder-Fury 2 or AJ-Fury easier to make going forward but I doubt it.

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

I had to open another account for this. I watched the fight. Man – Where do I begin ?

First off people need to stop talking about the body of Ruiz. I learned long ago that body fat isn’t an indicator of cardiovascular conditioning, its just extra weight being carried around. Muscle on the other hand is active weight, therefore it requires oxygen to operate, so being heavily muscled is more tiring than being fat, due to needing more oxygen to perform continuously.

That’s one of the reasons why Joshua was panting like a Labrador and pawing at his jab meekly. That’s one of the reasons why he lost to a taco eating fat yankee.

I think because Wilder is so technically flawed that it subconsciously had a lot of people under the impression that AJ was this great technician. Yes, he’s technically superior to Wilder. But he’s not difficult to hit.

I still think AJ beats Wilder and Fury. Joshua is still the best heavyweight so long as he fights anyone over 6ft 3.

To me Joshua actually improved his stature in defeat. Not because of his in-ring performance, obviously, but because of his gracious way of handling defeat.

But one judge actually had Joshua up on the cards. So if Ruiz would not have stopped him he would have gotten robbed.

AJ’s never going to reclaim his lofty status. He could be trained by the late Manny Steward and and Eddie Futch, he's still not going to suddenly start moving his head like Frazier, or improve his foot speed like Tyson nor is he going to stop lifting weight like he's Tony Atlas.

He is who he is.

An offensively exciting fighter with enough flaws that his next loss is always just one-punch away.

People say unless he has a heart and chin transplant, the paper tiger is done but he can learn to be ultra cautious. Kinda like Klitschko after he got stopped.

Another thing – AJ didn't quit.

To me his actions said “Just give me few seconds and I'll fight ”

He spat out his gum shield and then went to corner expecting a UK ref and a break and answered to referee 'Yeah, yeah' with hands on the ropes but he gave the ref terrible body language and it was game over.

But if AJ takes the rematch and get’s beat by Ruiz again ? Then he’ll be remembered similarly to Lucian Bute, who was also popular & undefeated until he left his own
backyard.

AJ has always entertained possibilities of a lost (in fact, he once said that he is confident that he would lose more than once in his career)

Objectively, few great fighters crumble as surprisingly as that. Joshua will need a sustained second coming to go down as a great fighter.

I also had a massive laugh at Laurel and Hardy (Eddie and Barry Hearn) They tried to get away with a line up of names fighting inept opponents, it back fired in a huge way!

• Queen Katie Taylor was clearly beaten but got the nod.
• Joshua Buatsi got the win against a old light faded opponent.
• The hype job Josh Kelly was cut badly over both eyes and didn't deserve the draw.
• Golden boy Callum Smith fought an ex sparring partner who had never once fought up at super middle weight.
• Tommy Coyle was hammered by a ordinary fighter in his prime that was way past his prime.

Finally AJ doesn't need a rematch now. It would ruin him. He needs to recuperate. He needs to accept the loss and start retooling.

Forget about who makes or has made the most money and get back to wanting to actually be better than everyone AND WANT to prove it.

He needs a new promoter, someone who cares more about him than conquering the boxing industry (and being such a cad at the same time).

In the right hands AJ will be fine. He is still one of the best.

[Primo Carnera]

Lot of sense there to be fair.

[TitoFan]

Whoa! Denilson?? The Comeback?? Wow... wait'll @walrus hears about THIS.

[walrus]

I had to open another account for this. I watched the fight. Man – Where do I begin ?

First off people need to stop talking about the body of Ruiz. I learned long ago that body fat isn’t an indicator of cardiovascular conditioning, its just extra weight being carried around. Muscle on the other hand is active weight, therefore it requires oxygen to operate, so being heavily muscled is more tiring than being fat, due to needing more oxygen to perform continuously.

That’s one of the reasons why Joshua was panting like a Labrador and pawing at his jab meekly. That’s one of the reasons why he lost to a taco eating fat yankee.

I think because Wilder is so technically flawed that it subconsciously had a lot of people under the impression that AJ was this great technician. Yes, he’s technically superior to Wilder. But he’s not difficult to hit.

I still think AJ beats Wilder and Fury. Joshua is still the best heavyweight so long as he fights anyone over 6ft 3.

To me Joshua actually improved his stature in defeat. Not because of his in-ring performance, obviously, but because of his gracious way of handling defeat.

But one judge actually had Joshua up on the cards. So if Ruiz would not have stopped him he would have gotten robbed.

AJ’s never going to reclaim his lofty status. He could be trained by the late Manny Steward and and Eddie Futch, he's still not going to suddenly start moving his head like Frazier, or improve his foot speed like Tyson nor is he going to stop lifting weight like he's Tony Atlas.

He is who he is.

An offensively exciting fighter with enough flaws that his next loss is always just one-punch away.

People say unless he has a heart and chin transplant, the paper tiger is done but he can learn to be ultra cautious. Kinda like Klitschko after he got stopped.

Another thing – AJ didn't quit.

To me his actions said “Just give me few seconds and I'll fight ”

He spat out his gum shield and then went to corner expecting a UK ref and a break and answered to referee 'Yeah, yeah' with hands on the ropes but he gave the ref terrible body language and it was game over.

But if AJ takes the rematch and get’s beat by Ruiz again ? Then he’ll be remembered similarly to Lucian Bute, who was also popular & undefeated until he left his own
backyard.

AJ has always entertained possibilities of a lost (in fact, he once said that he is confident that he would lose more than once in his career)

Objectively, few great fighters crumble as surprisingly as that. Joshua will need a sustained second coming to go down as a great fighter.

I also had a massive laugh at Laurel and Hardy (Eddie and Barry Hearn) They tried to get away with a line up of names fighting inept opponents, it back fired in a huge way!

• Queen Katie Taylor was clearly beaten but got the nod.
• Joshua Buatsi got the win against a old light faded opponent.
• The hype job Josh Kelly was cut badly over both eyes and didn't deserve the draw.
• Golden boy Callum Smith fought an ex sparring partner who had never once fought up at super middle weight.
• Tommy Coyle was hammered by a ordinary fighter in his prime that was way past his prime.

Finally AJ doesn't need a rematch now. It would ruin him. He needs to recuperate. He needs to accept the loss and start retooling.

Forget about who makes or has made the most money and get back to wanting to actually be better than everyone AND WANT to prove it.

He needs a new promoter, someone who cares more about him than conquering the boxing industry (and being such a cad at the same time).

In the right hands AJ will be fine. He is still one of the best.

What up my man big D. Good to see your around. I thought you might be in jail. We just lost some diversity when our Jewish brother beanz left now with big D back we can hold high the flag of diversity

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

I had to open another account for this. I watched the fight. Man – Where do I begin ?

First off people need to stop talking about the body of Ruiz. I learned long ago that body fat isn’t an indicator of cardiovascular conditioning, its just extra weight being carried around. Muscle on the other hand is active weight, therefore it requires oxygen to operate, so being heavily muscled is more tiring than being fat, due to needing more oxygen to perform continuously.

That’s one of the reasons why Joshua was panting like a Labrador and pawing at his jab meekly. That’s one of the reasons why he lost to a taco eating fat yankee.

I think because Wilder is so technically flawed that it subconsciously had a lot of people under the impression that AJ was this great technician. Yes, he’s technically superior to Wilder. But he’s not difficult to hit.

I still think AJ beats Wilder and Fury. Joshua is still the best heavyweight so long as he fights anyone over 6ft 3.

To me Joshua actually improved his stature in defeat. Not because of his in-ring performance, obviously, but because of his gracious way of handling defeat.

But one judge actually had Joshua up on the cards. So if Ruiz would not have stopped him he would have gotten robbed.

AJ’s never going to reclaim his lofty status. He could be trained by the late Manny Steward and and Eddie Futch, he's still not going to suddenly start moving his head like Frazier, or improve his foot speed like Tyson nor is he going to stop lifting weight like he's Tony Atlas.

He is who he is.

An offensively exciting fighter with enough flaws that his next loss is always just one-punch away.

People say unless he has a heart and chin transplant, the paper tiger is done but he can learn to be ultra cautious. Kinda like Klitschko after he got stopped.

Another thing – AJ didn't quit.

To me his actions said “Just give me few seconds and I'll fight ”

He spat out his gum shield and then went to corner expecting a UK ref and a break and answered to referee 'Yeah, yeah' with hands on the ropes but he gave the ref terrible body language and it was game over.

But if AJ takes the rematch and get’s beat by Ruiz again ? Then he’ll be remembered similarly to Lucian Bute, who was also popular & undefeated until he left his own
backyard.

AJ has always entertained possibilities of a lost (in fact, he once said that he is confident that he would lose more than once in his career)

Objectively, few great fighters crumble as surprisingly as that. Joshua will need a sustained second coming to go down as a great fighter.

I also had a massive laugh at Laurel and Hardy (Eddie and Barry Hearn) They tried to get away with a line up of names fighting inept opponents, it back fired in a huge way!

• Queen Katie Taylor was clearly beaten but got the nod.
• Joshua Buatsi got the win against a old light faded opponent.
• The hype job Josh Kelly was cut badly over both eyes and didn't deserve the draw.
• Golden boy Callum Smith fought an ex sparring partner who had never once fought up at super middle weight.
• Tommy Coyle was hammered by a ordinary fighter in his prime that was way past his prime.

Finally AJ doesn't need a rematch now. It would ruin him. He needs to recuperate. He needs to accept the loss and start retooling.

Forget about who makes or has made the most money and get back to wanting to actually be better than everyone AND WANT to prove it.

He needs a new promoter, someone who cares more about him than conquering the boxing industry (and being such a cad at the same time).

In the right hands AJ will be fine. He is still one of the best.

What up my man big D. Good to see your around. I thought you might be in jail. We just lost some diversity when our Jewish brother beanz left now with big D back we can hold high the flag of diversity

I'm not even gonna go there. I'm gonna stick to boxing topics only this time around.....pretty much.

[Batman]

I had to open another account for this. I watched the fight. Man – Where do I begin ?

First off people need to stop talking about the body of Ruiz. I learned long ago that body fat isn’t an indicator of cardiovascular conditioning, its just extra weight being carried around. Muscle on the other hand is active weight, therefore it requires oxygen to operate, so being heavily muscled is more tiring than being fat, due to needing more oxygen to perform continuously.

That’s one of the reasons why Joshua was panting like a Labrador and pawing at his jab meekly. That’s one of the reasons why he lost to a taco eating fat yankee.

I think because Wilder is so technically flawed that it subconsciously had a lot of people under the impression that AJ was this great technician. Yes, he’s technically superior to Wilder. But he’s not difficult to hit.

I still think AJ beats Wilder and Fury. Joshua is still the best heavyweight so long as he fights anyone over 6ft 3.

To me Joshua actually improved his stature in defeat. Not because of his in-ring performance, obviously, but because of his gracious way of handling defeat.

But one judge actually had Joshua up on the cards. So if Ruiz would not have stopped him he would have gotten robbed.

AJ’s never going to reclaim his lofty status. He could be trained by the late Manny Steward and and Eddie Futch, he's still not going to suddenly start moving his head like Frazier, or improve his foot speed like Tyson nor is he going to stop lifting weight like he's Tony Atlas.

He is who he is.

An offensively exciting fighter with enough flaws that his next loss is always just one-punch away.

People say unless he has a heart and chin transplant, the paper tiger is done but he can learn to be ultra cautious. Kinda like Klitschko after he got stopped.

Another thing – AJ didn't quit.

To me his actions said “Just give me few seconds and I'll fight ”

He spat out his gum shield and then went to corner expecting a UK ref and a break and answered to referee 'Yeah, yeah' with hands on the ropes but he gave the ref terrible body language and it was game over.

But if AJ takes the rematch and get’s beat by Ruiz again ? Then he’ll be remembered similarly to Lucian Bute, who was also popular & undefeated until he left his own
backyard.

AJ has always entertained possibilities of a lost (in fact, he once said that he is confident that he would lose more than once in his career)

Objectively, few great fighters crumble as surprisingly as that. Joshua will need a sustained second coming to go down as a great fighter.

I also had a massive laugh at Laurel and Hardy (Eddie and Barry Hearn) They tried to get away with a line up of names fighting inept opponents, it back fired in a huge way!

• Queen Katie Taylor was clearly beaten but got the nod.
• Joshua Buatsi got the win against a old light faded opponent.
• The hype job Josh Kelly was cut badly over both eyes and didn't deserve the draw.
• Golden boy Callum Smith fought an ex sparring partner who had never once fought up at super middle weight.
• Tommy Coyle was hammered by a ordinary fighter in his prime that was way past his prime.

Finally AJ doesn't need a rematch now. It would ruin him. He needs to recuperate. He needs to accept the loss and start retooling.

Forget about who makes or has made the most money and get back to wanting to actually be better than everyone AND WANT to prove it.

He needs a new promoter, someone who cares more about him than conquering the boxing industry (and being such a cad at the same time).

In the right hands AJ will be fine. He is still one of the best.

What up my man big D. Good to see your around. I thought you might be in jail. We just lost some diversity when our Jewish brother beanz left now with big D back we can hold high the flag of diversity

I'm not even gonna go there. I'm gonna stick to boxing topics only this time around.....pretty much.

Good idea, I actually used to enjoy reading your boxing related posts.

But what has gone on with beanz? Not to derail the thread or anything.

[east end bob]

the loss doesn't bother me at all. What I have a big problem with it look like Joshua quit. if he want to be a champion again he has to fight smarter and grow a pair. The heart of a Champion is very important.

So many things about the fight are puzzling. The odds on a win for RUIZ were ridiculous. Leon Spinks beating Ali was the last one that I won money on for the same reason. Joshua looked distant, uninterested and was systematically beaten up. If there was nothing wrong with him, I feel that he has a limited future in the sport. He was terrible from the start. If not, what was wrong with him? It is true that Ruiz was underestimated by everybody and good luck to him proving them wrong. However, I don't feel that he fought the real Joshua. The heavyweight scene has been over hyped. Too much time listening to biased promoters, too much bull, too many press conferences, too many orchestrated weigh ins, ridiculous face offs and slagging off each other. Am I the only one completely fed up hearing the name Eddie Hearn? I long to get back to genuine fighters/sportsmen doing their best without the desire to be dragged in front of cameras to sell the fight. The game has lost any dignity that it once had.

[east end bob]

I had to open another account for this. I watched the fight. Man – Where do I begin ?

First off people need to stop talking about the body of Ruiz. I learned long ago that body fat isn’t an indicator of cardiovascular conditioning, its just extra weight being carried around. Muscle on the other hand is active weight, therefore it requires oxygen to operate, so being heavily muscled is more tiring than being fat, due to needing more oxygen to perform continuously.

That’s one of the reasons why Joshua was panting like a Labrador and pawing at his jab meekly. That’s one of the reasons why he lost to a taco eating fat yankee.

I think because Wilder is so technically flawed that it subconsciously had a lot of people under the impression that AJ was this great technician. Yes, he’s technically superior to Wilder. But he’s not difficult to hit.

I still think AJ beats Wilder and Fury. Joshua is still the best heavyweight so long as he fights anyone over 6ft 3.

To me Joshua actually improved his stature in defeat. Not because of his in-ring performance, obviously, but because of his gracious way of handling defeat.

But one judge actually had Joshua up on the cards. So if Ruiz would not have stopped him he would have gotten robbed.

AJ’s never going to reclaim his lofty status. He could be trained by the late Manny Steward and and Eddie Futch, he's still not going to suddenly start moving his head like Frazier, or improve his foot speed like Tyson nor is he going to stop lifting weight like he's Tony Atlas.

He is who he is.

An offensively exciting fighter with enough flaws that his next loss is always just one-punch away.

People say unless he has a heart and chin transplant, the paper tiger is done but he can learn to be ultra cautious. Kinda like Klitschko after he got stopped.

Another thing – AJ didn't quit.

To me his actions said “Just give me few seconds and I'll fight ”

He spat out his gum shield and then went to corner expecting a UK ref and a break and answered to referee 'Yeah, yeah' with hands on the ropes but he gave the ref terrible body language and it was game over.

But if AJ takes the rematch and get’s beat by Ruiz again ? Then he’ll be remembered similarly to Lucian Bute, who was also popular & undefeated until he left his own
backyard.

AJ has always entertained possibilities of a lost (in fact, he once said that he is confident that he would lose more than once in his career)

Objectively, few great fighters crumble as surprisingly as that. Joshua will need a sustained second coming to go down as a great fighter.

I also had a massive laugh at Laurel and Hardy (Eddie and Barry Hearn) They tried to get away with a line up of names fighting inept opponents, it back fired in a huge way!

• Queen Katie Taylor was clearly beaten but got the nod.
• Joshua Buatsi got the win against a old light faded opponent.
• The hype job Josh Kelly was cut badly over both eyes and didn't deserve the draw.
• Golden boy Callum Smith fought an ex sparring partner who had never once fought up at super middle weight.
• Tommy Coyle was hammered by a ordinary fighter in his prime that was way past his prime.

Finally AJ doesn't need a rematch now. It would ruin him. He needs to recuperate. He needs to accept the loss and start retooling.

Forget about who makes or has made the most money and get back to wanting to actually be better than everyone AND WANT to prove it.

He needs a new promoter, someone who cares more about him than conquering the boxing industry (and being such a cad at the same time).

In the right hands AJ will be fine. He is still one of the best.

What up my man big D. Good to see your around. I thought you might be in jail. We just lost some diversity when our Jewish brother beanz left now with big D back we can hold high the flag of diversity

I'm not even gonna go there. I'm gonna stick to boxing topics only this time around.....pretty much.

Good idea, I actually used to enjoy reading your boxing related posts.

But what has gone on with beanz? Not to derail the thread or anything.

Intelligent observations. I am fed up hearing the name Eddie Hearn. Fed up with boring orchestrated weigh ins and press conferences. Joshua is a decent fighter but didn't show up and got beaten up. He could be finished on that performance. He needs to extract himself from the circus he is in.

[SlimTrae]

Looking at punchstats made this fight just a bit weirder.
AJ is given 47 out of 176 thrown.
They gave Ruiz credit for landing 56 out of 206.


Ruiz is given credit for landing 9 body punches, (5) power. How does that equate to panting AJ? Give or take a few that means had it gone the distance, AJ may have landed 100, but again, what caused him to appear so gassed out.

I'm not sure this fight can tell us anything. Wlad hit him harder than Ruiz IMO, so, too, did Povetkin. And AJ dropped him with a shot, that he can land again. One thing for sure is that he won't become some new fighter with an improved jab or fluid head movement.