Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?

[TitoFan]

You're in SK (12 hours apart?) so it's a miracle we're ever online at the same time.

When you DO address my post, please tell me what you make of little Johnny's choices about being poor or not. Granted, it's Johnny's mom spitting out kids and holding out her hand for the welfare checks. But Johnny himself... what REALISTIC choices does he have?

Also, the more I think about it, the more I blame governments. Lazy, dumbass people who insist on putting Band-aids where stitches were needed. They're at the core of our societal problems.

[El Kabong]

Could be bad luck, could be poor planning, could be a misunderstanding of the way the system works, could be somebody stole from you and put you in a hole you can't climb out of.


I think a lot of it has to do with A#1 being able to refrain from the Veruca Salt mentality "I want it now" and delay gratification and #2 not getting yourself into massive debt to begin with and the main culprits of that are A ) COLLEGE and B ) CREDIT CARDS ......and I'd also say Debit Cards don't help either from a psychological perspective it's not like a transaction with cash where you count the bills out and receive change it's just numbers on a card which are easier to lose track of.



Financial IQ is uncommon sense these days and ever since the government took control of student loans look at where the tuition prices have gone and value for money fucking forget about it college degrees are more and more worthless.

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

Having recently been called racist

Yes by me and I suspect that you are.

because I honestly think people more often than not choose their own poverty.

No you don't. Not deep down.

About half the world’s 7 billion people live on less than $2.50 a day.

Buying a computer or being an inventor or business whizz to them would be like you trying to buy a Bugatti Veyron. Access to knowledge and education on this planet is very limited.

It might seem widely available because you were born in the USA so that’s all you know but if you were born in rural Burma or rural Angola you’d find your options for learning and bettering yourself to be extremely limited.

There is virtually no social mobility in many countries. You're either born into wealth through luck or you are born into the majority of impoverished people and will remain stuck there for life.

I thought I would put the question out there as an open question.

You repeating yourself. You started a topic with a question and now again your saying "I'm gonna start this topic with a question"

I really struggle with this question as I have been as poor as anybody on this forum.

You think Bill Gates just worked hard ?

Everyone from Bill Gates to Warren Buffett needed a substantial amount of money to start up their companies. The founder of facebook (Mark Zuckerberg) attended two of the most expensive and prestigious schools in the USA (Harvard, Phillips Exeter Academy). Donald Trump inherited a couple hundred million dollars worth of assets from his daddy.

Most wealth is inherited and their success was due to their parents bank account, connections and a bit a luck but had little to do with their intelligence and hard work.

Steve Jobs (Apple Founder) was just another tech CEO. If Steve Jobs was not put up for adoption and his father returned with him back to Syria, then Steve Jobs today would have be some 60 something year old man in Syria named Mr Jandali. Maybe he would be Dr Jandali, but it is highly unlikely he would founded one of the world’s top computer companies.

Take the average drug dealer born in the ghetto. They could easily become a fortune five hundred CEO. The same type of person that has the personality and skills to run a criminal entrepreneurship can easily run a legal one, but many will never have the opportunity that will allow them to earn the credentials necessary to do so. Simply because of where they were born in life.

I have seen the recklessness and laziness of parents. I have been in very disadvantaged positions as a child. It was very obvious that my parents were either lazy or wasteful.

Stevie Wonder is a millionaire but his money does not disprove the fact that it's an advantage to have your eyesight.

You might have grew up living in the mud, without a biscuit (and even then I kinda doubt that) but you were still white as was your family.

So, in your case the proper test of your racial privilege would be to compare poor whites in the region you grew up, with poor blacks in the same region or state and to then ask, did whites have an advantage ?

In those competitions race matters.

You were not competing against Oprah or Micheal Jordan. You were competing (if you even lived around blk ppl and I doubt that) with other poor black folk and that's were race matters because black workers are the first fired in an economic downturn and remain more likely to be unemployed.

Perhaps white Americans should move to a reservation, or a district where impoverished Black people live, and continue talking about how ‘unfair ‘and ‘oppressive’ it is to be white.

I was really bad with money as a young adult too having never really been taught how to respect it, but from a relatively young age I knew the importance of saving, of working hard, of upgrading a skill set and in turn have always seemed to do okay. I am just not sure what people are spending their money on to be poor all the time. Or why they are not moving to new towns. Or learning new skills.

Remember you are white and you were seen as white by your teachers, by employers, by doctors, by everyone. So as you were coming up you reaped the benefits of presumed whiteness :

The presumptions of competence
The presumptions of law-abidingness
The presumptions of general intelligence

None of these thing black people attending school can assume others will presume about us

So yes you may have worked hard but at every turn, your hard work was met with an access to an opportunity structure to which black people are more likely to have been denied.

I mean, I earn a pretty average income, nothing special going on. I think I bought a new TV about 8 years ago. The same old couch sits across from me. I can only assume a lot of people are trying to keep up with the Jones family across from them as personal debt levels are high here. All you do really is pay the bills, buy some food, the occasional replacement clothing, some fuel, some books and you are set. I get that bad things happen too and they do to me also. But insurance is not expensive, covering your health each month is only a single night out sacrificed.

Look - White privilege at it's most basic level is the privilege of having one less thing to worry about in life.

Don't get it twisted

Everyone has problems but for whites ? Dealing with systematic racism is not an issue.

I think it's grotesque and monumentally repugnant of white ppl who want to own victim-hood whilst being steeped in white privilege and patronizingly conflate their specific white ethnic problems within white dominance and project that onto black people and foist upon the very people (Black people) who have absolutely nothing to do with any past stuff that they may have had to deal with.

And then you try to equate your history as similar to that of black history, thereby relinquishing any culpability emanating from their own oppression/racism of black people all the while enjoying the ill-gotten fruits of white superiority.

Genius !! (lol)

Why don't you direct your complaints of ‘poor white oppression’ to you fellow white Anglo-Saxon brethren ?

Black people have never oppressed poor whites.

You have the nerve to sit there trying to garner sympathy whilst exonerating yourself of racism, from the very people (Black people) whom white supremacists oppress and continue to do so
.

[El Kabong]

Having recently been called racist

Yes by me and I suspect that you are.

Thereby making him no different to anyone else you interact with on here.

[Beanz]

Having recently been called racist

Yes by me and I suspect that you are.

Thereby making him no different to anyone else you interact with on here.

Not really. I don't know any other posters here who post crap like

'Black People choose to be poor'

Nobody made Gandalf post that. He chose to.

I expect he thought he was being edgy or something

[p4pking]

A better question is; why the fuck do you care? The majority of people in abject poverty are probably happier than you are.

[p4pking]

Oh and please just tell me to pour another drink instead of pretending to answer the question, its essentially the same thing.

[Dia bando]

Were it went simple enough to many people willing to live on benefits.
Many round my area where professional benefit cheats working on the side breeding a house full of kids one dipstick told me he could not work he had a bent finger and that prevented him from working mind you he could fuck he had 6 kids plus cleaning windows on the side.
There were many more to speak of what happened the genuine people who were disabled had to suffer because of this work shy bunch.
Poverty stuck in a rut etc there is work out there if people can be assed to look.
You would be amassed how work shy some people are I know people who a professional alcoholics I kid you not paid to stay at home and drink Worlds a fucked up place.

[El Kabong]

Not really. I don't know any other posters here who post crap like

'Black People choose to be poor'

Nobody made Gandalf post that. He chose to.

I expect he thought he was being edgy or something

Being poor is a choice a lot of people make regardless of skin color.

[p4pking]

And it affects people who arent poor by way of .................................................. .........
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[Dia bando]

Not really. I don't know any other posters here who post crap like

'Black People choose to be poor'

Nobody made Gandalf post that. He chose to.

I expect he thought he was being edgy or something

Being poor is a choice a lot of people make regardless of skin color.

Some yes Lyle others it can be out of their control mate.
I admire people who want to better themselves nothing wrong with that.
Education is a major factor also ones parents .

[El Kabong]

Not really. I don't know any other posters here who post crap like

'Black People choose to be poor'

Nobody made Gandalf post that. He chose to.

I expect he thought he was being edgy or something

Being poor is a choice a lot of people make regardless of skin color.

Some yes Lyle others it can be out of their control mate.
I admire people who want to better themselves nothing wrong with that.
Education is a major factor also ones parents .

In some cases yes, there are circumstances beyond an individual's ability to control and in other cases it's a choice.

[Gandalf]

A better question is; why the fuck do you care? The majority of people in abject poverty are probably happier than you are.

Who says I care? If poverty is a choice then no I do not care. I am just wondering why people do it to themselves.

Alcoholics make themselves poor, so pour another. See if I care. 😎

[Gandalf]

TBH, I find the OP question a little naive (no offense, Miles).

It's the equivalent of the question: "Did you stop beating your wife, yes or no?"

Being poor is not a choice for a great many people.

Sure, your points (Miles) about fatherless families where the mother gives birth to 10 children is totally accurate and well received. I agree 100%. It puts a needless burden on society and at this point it's inconceivable that women without much to contribute to society would be spitting out kids by the dozens. It's irresponsible, especially when usually the plan is that "Well....... the government will take care of us."

But that's only a certain segment of society. Sure, a very big segment, but it cuts across all races and ethnic groups.

You know who's really at fault, IMO? The governments.

Governments that lazily draw up welfare plans and implement them just as carelessly are entirely to blame. They make it possible for people to FREELOAD as much as they possibly can. Generations upon generations decide to live off the government and of course have as many kids as they can, as the number of kids is many times rewarded under these systems. Governments have f*cked society up as royally as possible.

So little Johnny (I always use that name ) is born from a single black mother in the tough neighborhoods of Detroit, one of 10 kids born to this woman. They all live in the projects. They all live off food stamps, welfare, and whatever the mom can scrounge off the streets. Going to and staying in school is the first major challenge little Johnny is going to have to make. Just making it through grade school will be a challenge. The nearby public school is probably crime-ridden, teacher attendance is poor, and the lure of drug trafficking looms large as the way to some good, easy money. Let's say by some miracle Johnny makes it through the 12th grade. What chance does he have for a college or even a trade school education, all of which costs money? What grants are there available? Who's going to loan him money? By this time, all of Johnny's friends are either dead, or living the good life dealing drugs. Tough position to be in, is it not? What percentage of these kids actually make it through a post-high school education and make something out of themselves? I doubt anyone here has come from that background, and it would be interesting to see how each of us would deal with odds like that.

So asking "why do people stay poor" is in effect a superficially-sounding question that makes it seem like you're at Baskin Robbins choosing between chocolate or vanilla. It's not quite that simple.

Firstly, I agree that the question has a naive edge to it. It was mainly as I wanted an open question with people free to chime in as they liked. I also thought it would be fair to erase the racial element as people of any race can be poor, only statistically it effects some races more than others.

I agree with you completely that government has enabled and encouraged this behavior. Having children without planning or consideration is rewarded. I have seen it in my own life back home and it is generational and will continue. I hate to sound harsh but there comes a point when the tap of generosity needs to be shut down. It results in the smartest, most fiscally responsible people having fewer children and the least able having the most children and this is a very unhealthy trajectory.

I agree with your points about Johnny. He is going to have a very hard time making good decisions. He has never been able to see any alternative and thus the patterns will continue and he can cry about slavery all he likes, but his own mother put him into that environment and she did not consider the outcomes.

We are in an age of me and I feel as though children get used like commodities among the poor sometimes.

[Gandalf]

Could be bad luck, could be poor planning, could be a misunderstanding of the way the system works, could be somebody stole from you and put you in a hole you can't climb out of.


I think a lot of it has to do with A#1 being able to refrain from the Veruca Salt mentality "I want it now" and delay gratification and #2 not getting yourself into massive debt to begin with and the main culprits of that are A ) COLLEGE and B ) CREDIT CARDS ......and I'd also say Debit Cards don't help either from a psychological perspective it's not like a transaction with cash where you count the bills out and receive change it's just numbers on a card which are easier to lose track of.



Financial IQ is uncommon sense these days and ever since the government took control of student loans look at where the tuition prices have gone and value for money fucking forget about it college degrees are more and more worthless.

Two solid arguments there. After years of schooling and no financial education, what do schools do? They say 'You must go to University for your future'. You have no idea what you want to be and suddenly an adult child is now signed up to tens of thousands of debt and banks throwing cards and overdrafts out like confetti. That's somewhat dangerous and good schooling and parenting would have educated the child about those things. It doesn't happen.

I like the Salt analogy. I cannot believe anyone in the US would study in the humanities and come out 200,000 dollars poorer. Quite surreal.