The "Can We Keep it Civil?" Thread

[walrus]

Well if big D now says no race exists we are finally free from white supremacy

[Memphis]

Does anyone actually want it to be civil around here? OK I know some do. But the lengths some people will go to to have a ruck are insane. Certain people literally can't engage with one another without having a tear up. And if there's any ambiguity at all over conflict or lack there of, conflict is quickly created, consciously, subconsciously, I dunno. I know people are quick to defend themselves against these accusations, but deliberately misconstruing someones viewpoint to create opposition is rife. It's happening all over the place.

Wouldn't it be easier for certain parties to just concede that they love it. Stop pretending it's all someone elses fault, it always is. Stop pretending you want it to end, you don't.

I've gone 180 on this. A while back I was firmly of the opinion that the site needed to lose half a dozen members or so. Half a dozen or so members that fall over themselves to have a row and in the grand scheme of things do more harm to the forum than good. Now, I think fuck it. You want to treat one another that way fine, fill your boots, but please stop fucking crying about it.

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

The first person to scream Nazi loses. I accept your White flag of defeat, Dennis. You gave it a good shot, but fail because in your efforts to deny race you still constantly hate on White people. If there is no such thing as race then what are you arguing?

Well Hitler did not just come out and say

"Hey. German people. We're just gonna kill six millions Jew. Are you cool with that ?"

No. No. That's not how it works.

The first stage was to dehumanize them

They are seen as less than human, stupid, as animals or a kind of disease. So killing them was no longer murder – it was just ridding the country of something bad.

And the first people killed in any genocide are those in the mainstream who speak up for them. That's what Hitler did. Now the message of hate goes unchallenged.

This is why the likes of Mandela was locked up. Colin Kapernick was kicked out the NFL etc. MLK shot

Read Mein Kampf.

Genocides unfold stages.

Stopping it at any one stage, stops the genocide from going forward.

Racism grows and feeds off a culture of silence. The point of calling out racism is to break down that silence.

It doesn't matter if I persuade anyone.
It doesn't matter if I “win the argument”.

What matters is that you were heard and planted that seed in people’s minds of, “Hey, maybe this is not right.”

Take Elizabeth Eckford.



She was one of the first nine black students to go to Little Rock Central High School in the American South. That school was a racist hell for her – because the 90% who were not giving her sh*t would not stand up to the 10% who were. The American civil rights movement succeeded when people stopped being cowed by fear of standing up to racists.

And I'll say this

Calling out racism matters more when it comes from whites.

Why ? Because most ppl (especially whites) think white people are way more objective and neutral about racism than blacks.

Black people calling out racism ? Whites generally discount what blacks say, it is part of your cultural conditioning, but they still hear it. They hear what we say and, just as important, what we do not say. If something racist goes down and blacks say nothing, whites will assume that it is “okay”. Especially since many whites assume blacks are “oversensitive”.

A bully will always start off with an instant comment, they do this because, if you react they can do what your doing "Hey, you know, just joking, ya know, it's not that serious"

Nope. It's very serious because when you look at the fked up racial history of America that's because racism was not shut down at stage one.

[TitoFan]

Does anyone actually want it to be civil around here? OK I know some do.

Yeah... some do. This particular thread, believe it or not, was started (ill-advised I'll admit) as maybe a step in that direction. I'm hardly the only one to start such threads, as there have been numerous (and hilarious) "truce" threads started by others. The thread was immediately called "bait", which is a false accusation.

But the lengths some people will go to to have a ruck are insane. Certain people literally can't engage with one another without having a tear up.

As Mod and peacekeeper on here, I know you'll leave it at that. But I'll add that some of us can pretty much engage with each other. I'm sorry but when it's "one against the world", usually I start looking at the "one." It works this way in kindergarten (which this many times resembles)..... it works this way in any work environment.


And if there's any ambiguity at all over conflict or lack there of, conflict is quickly created, consciously, subconsciously, I dunno. I know people are quick to defend themselves against these accusations, but deliberately misconstruing someones viewpoint to create opposition is rife. It's happening all over the place.

Hey... we've been warring on here long enough that eventually a lot of that sets in. I'll not throw stones lest I crack my glass ceiling.... but as the orange-haired one once said.... "there's fault on both sides."


Wouldn't it be easier for certain parties to just concede that they love it. Stop pretending it's all someone elses fault, it always is. Stop pretending you want it to end, you don't.

You have a wonderful point there. I personally tend to go though a cycle. At first I discuss in earnest. Disagreements are part of life.... without them we wouldn't be human. As the arguments progress and go nowhere, yes.... I'll get caught up on the heat of the argument. At some point, when I see arguing is fruitless.... and attempts at being civil fail miserably.... yes, I usually then go into the cynic, fun-poking mode. And you know what? It does become a sort of twisted type of fun. Again... nothing to hide here.

I've gone 180 on this. A while back I was firmly of the opinion that the site needed to lose half a dozen members or so. Half a dozen or so members that fall over themselves to have a row and in the grand scheme of things do more harm to the forum than good. Now, I think fuck it. You want to treat one another that way fine, fill your boots, but please stop fucking crying about it.

But again, you bring up some very good points. Still, I'll revert back to my way of thinking about it.

I've had heated arguments with another poster on gun control. As heated as they get. Today we still disagree... but do so as normal human beings. I've had heated arguments with another about IQ and its "supposed correlations." Ditto on the arguments being conducted normally. I disagree with a few others on Trump. Everything gets said civilly. And so on and so forth.

If it was me (or anyone else for that matter) who was constantly at war with those "half a dozen members" you mention... and was constantly claiming not to "want it", as you said..... not to "enjoy it", as you said..... and that it was everybody else's fault...... DAMN.... I'd very likely be gone by now. And THAT, Memphis, is a fact.

In the end, it's a damn forum. Everyone keeps their shit off the main boards... and those members who don't care to see the circus on the other side simply don't go there.

[Gandalf]

Dennis, you are confused.

I think Black people in the West deserve the same rights and opportunities as anyone else. I believe in equality of opportunity which is WHY I stress the importance of raising a child in a stable loving environment or else not having children. I apply the same logic to anyone. The only person calling anyone subhuman or calling people animals here is you.

Mandela was locked up because he was a terrorist. He was responsible for murder. However, that is what happens when you deny people their rights and opportunities. I was against Apartheid.

I do not agree with suppressing anyone. All I am doing is saying that the scientific data is what it is and that things can and should be done better and it starts in the home. Not ending in a concentration camp. You go off onto these wild tangents when I have tacitly downplayed genetics perhaps in denial of what smarter minds than I think.

I have seen different cultures and that is where I think culture is crucial. I think I would have benefited a lot from private tuition. Wouldn't you have?

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

The first person to scream Nazi loses. I accept your White flag of defeat, Dennis. You gave it a good shot, but fail because in your efforts to deny race you still constantly hate on White people. If there is no such thing as race then what are you arguing?

Isn’t everything brother D posted here for so long about race? Isn’t that central to his whole belief system

When, or if, black people begin lynching, raping, oppressing, exploiting, shooting, jailing, whipping, maiming, torturing, evangelizing, robbing, stereotyping, bullying, bombing, segregating, building highways and thruways to dislocate businesses, communities and neighborhoods; creating sun down towns, experimenting on, discriminating against, prohibiting, murdering, holding back/controlling in every imaginable way while hating white ppl en mass via de jure and de facto racism for hundreds of years, then and only then will saying to any black person that "race is central to their whole belief system" make sense

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

Mandela was locked up because he was a terrorist. He was responsible for murder. However, that is what happens when you deny people their rights and opportunities. I was against Apartheid.

No white person is African.

"South Africa was taken by the white man in blood and it must be returned in blood"

You have to speak the language of the white man and the white man only understands violence. So you have to talk in a way that he understands.

If I come into your home and stomp down your door and use what's in your home to build my empire and then I say "Well I'm black and we blacks are superior to you whites. Got it ? So this is my home now and I'm gonna force you into the slums and your offspring and your gonna live in the mud. It's gonna be called the system of apartheid"

I can't complain at the tactics you use to get your home back.

[Gandalf]

Mandela was locked up because he was a terrorist. He was responsible for murder. However, that is what happens when you deny people their rights and opportunities. I was against Apartheid.

No white person is African.

"South Africa was taken by the white man in blood and it must be returned in blood"

You have to speak the language of the white man and the white man only understands violence. So you have to talk in a way that he understands.

If I come into your home and stomp down your door and use what's in your home to build my empire and then I say "Well I'm black and we blacks are superior to you whites. Got it ? So this is my home now and I'm gonna force you into the slums and your offspring and your gonna live in the mud. It's gonna be called the system of apartheid"

I can't complain at the tactics you use to get your home back.

We are talking about South Africa right? You do know a little bit about the bloodshed there? You have been very quick to point out different ethnic groups among blacks? Would you care to explain the history of South Africa in a little bit more detail?

[Memphis]

Does anyone actually want it to be civil around here? OK I know some do.

Yeah... some do. This particular thread, believe it or not, was started (ill-advised I'll admit) as maybe a step in that direction. I'm hardly the only one to start such threads, as there have been numerous (and hilarious) "truce" threads started by others. The thread was immediately called "bait", which is a false accusation.

But the lengths some people will go to to have a ruck are insane. Certain people literally can't engage with one another without having a tear up.

As Mod and peacekeeper on here, I know you'll leave it at that. But I'll add that some of us can pretty much engage with each other. I'm sorry but when it's "one against the world", usually I start looking at the "one." It works this way in kindergarten (which this many times resembles)..... it works this way in any work environment.


And if there's any ambiguity at all over conflict or lack there of, conflict is quickly created, consciously, subconsciously, I dunno. I know people are quick to defend themselves against these accusations, but deliberately misconstruing someones viewpoint to create opposition is rife. It's happening all over the place.

Hey... we've been warring on here long enough that eventually a lot of that sets in. I'll not throw stones lest I crack my glass ceiling.... but as the orange-haired one once said.... "there's fault on both sides."


Wouldn't it be easier for certain parties to just concede that they love it. Stop pretending it's all someone elses fault, it always is. Stop pretending you want it to end, you don't.

You have a wonderful point there. I personally tend to go though a cycle. At first I discuss in earnest. Disagreements are part of life.... without them we wouldn't be human. As the arguments progress and go nowhere, yes.... I'll get caught up on the heat of the argument. At some point, when I see arguing is fruitless.... and attempts at being civil fail miserably.... yes, I usually then go into the cynic, fun-poking mode. And you know what? It does become a sort of twisted type of fun. Again... nothing to hide here.

I've gone 180 on this. A while back I was firmly of the opinion that the site needed to lose half a dozen members or so. Half a dozen or so members that fall over themselves to have a row and in the grand scheme of things do more harm to the forum than good. Now, I think fuck it. You want to treat one another that way fine, fill your boots, but please stop fucking crying about it.

But again, you bring up some very good points. Still, I'll revert back to my way of thinking about it.

I've had heated arguments with another poster on gun control. As heated as they get. Today we still disagree... but do so as normal human beings. I've had heated arguments with another about IQ and its "supposed correlations." Ditto on the arguments being conducted normally. I disagree with a few others on Trump. Everything gets said civilly. And so on and so forth.

If it was me (or anyone else for that matter) who was constantly at war with those "half a dozen members" you mention... and was constantly claiming not to "want it", as you said..... not to "enjoy it", as you said..... and that it was everybody else's fault...... DAMN.... I'd very likely be gone by now. And THAT, Memphis, is a fact.

In the end, it's a damn forum. Everyone keeps their shit off the main boards... and those members who don't care to see the circus on the other side simply don't go there.

In part I agree. It's segregated from the main boxing discussion and anyone that wants no part of it, doesn't have to. The flip side is of course that no one ever will be part of it whilst it's a clusterfuck of nastiness with no one willing or capable of taking a backward step.

I dunno, maybe it's a the topics being discussed. Anyone that's been around long enough will tell you that the off topic board used to be a great place. Teaming with life, no conflict, laugh a minute. But it's probably worth remembering that no one was trying to pick the bones out of gun control or LGBTQ back then.

[Beanz]

For starters conflict should not be here on the Off Topic board which the General unlogged in public can see. So apologies for posting stuff on this board that is not helpful. As for taking a step back, I am more than willing to do that. I could never post again, but it would not resolve the problem. I have for months refused to use posters actual names, and yet it is now a forum game for many to go way past that and mention family members, post stuff outside of Saddos, (emails, Google searches etc). I don't share my work outside of Saddo on here, even when it is specifically boxing related, and yet now I have had to put up extra firewalls , do things like turn off all comments etc on media i produce and sites I maintain because posters insist on not just getting personal, but taking it way beyond the forum and outside of it. Crazy really.

There are also many new posters complaining outwardly about the blatant racism and stuff which is now just accepted across the boards. So it has definitely changed.

I have never encountered this kind of constant group hostility anywhere else. Certainly not in the real world. I admit I am probably pretty unrepresentative of a lot of posters because of what I do, how i live and who make up the world i live and work in, but I am not about to apologize for being myself, when it is a minority who can't handle that. I honestly don't find all this nasty conflict it fun at all. I will be very blunt and stand my ground and often that is interpreted as aggressive, even when it is clearly just plain speaking, and any humour i use just doesn't translate, so apologies for that. I again will be honest and admit that I find some posters to be so agonizingly straight (not sexually) and conventional that i find it impossible to connect with the way they think and post.

I would ask that people please PM me if they want to know something personal about my condition, my work etc, instead of hauling me over the coals publicly on here. And please don 't leave comments on my work outside, slagging off boxers, clients or the people featured in them . Just bloody ask me directly in a Pm or email or simply move on if a film or article offends or upsets you so much that you think you have a right to vent about it. I am going to give it a rest for a bit. I have been so busy with work I need the break. It does pain me on some levels because it has been brilliant work wise and I have had some fantastic experiences the last few weeks , firsts, that I would have enjoyed sharing, but then i log on here to a barrage of people insisting i must be angry, which still perplexes me, and I don't feel I can. If i am not among friends it is hardly worth doing so. I am really a very chilled out happy peaceful guy who just finds the level of dishonesty here a bit extraordinary of late. Memphis is right it used to be a great board, and was a fun place. I tried to keep that withe the retro threads etc but it seems that for some banging on about LGBT, IQ, RACE, POLITICS etc is their idea of fun. It certainly is not mine.

[Dark Lord Al]

Mandela was locked up because he was a terrorist. He was responsible for murder. However, that is what happens when you deny people their rights and opportunities. I was against Apartheid.

No white person is African.

"South Africa was taken by the white man in blood and it must be returned in blood"

You have to speak the language of the white man and the white man only understands violence. So you have to talk in a way that he understands.

If I come into your home and stomp down your door and use what's in your home to build my empire and then I say "Well I'm black and we blacks are superior to you whites. Got it ? So this is my home now and I'm gonna force you into the slums and your offspring and your gonna live in the mud. It's gonna be called the system of apartheid"

I can't complain at the tactics you use to get your home back.

Why didn't the blacks stop the white men taking over South Africa ?

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

Mandela was locked up because he was a terrorist. He was responsible for murder. However, that is what happens when you deny people their rights and opportunities. I was against Apartheid.

No white person is African.

"South Africa was taken by the white man in blood and it must be returned in blood"

You have to speak the language of the white man and the white man only understands violence. So you have to talk in a way that he understands.

If I come into your home and stomp down your door and use what's in your home to build my empire and then I say "Well I'm black and we blacks are superior to you whites. Got it ? So this is my home now and I'm gonna force you into the slums and your offspring and your gonna live in the mud. It's gonna be called the system of apartheid"

I can't complain at the tactics you use to get your home back.

We are talking about South Africa right? You do know a little bit about the bloodshed there? You have been very quick to point out different ethnic groups among blacks? Would you care to explain the history of South Africa in a little bit more detail?

If you have rats in your house. Do you debate wit the rats ? Or do you just exterminate them ?

No white person is African

[Dark Lord Al]

Mandela was locked up because he was a terrorist. He was responsible for murder. However, that is what happens when you deny people their rights and opportunities. I was against Apartheid.

No white person is African.

"South Africa was taken by the white man in blood and it must be returned in blood"

You have to speak the language of the white man and the white man only understands violence. So you have to talk in a way that he understands.

If I come into your home and stomp down your door and use what's in your home to build my empire and then I say "Well I'm black and we blacks are superior to you whites. Got it ? So this is my home now and I'm gonna force you into the slums and your offspring and your gonna live in the mud. It's gonna be called the system of apartheid"

I can't complain at the tactics you use to get your home back.

We are talking about South Africa right? You do know a little bit about the bloodshed there? You have been very quick to point out different ethnic groups among blacks? Would you care to explain the history of South Africa in a little bit more detail?

If you have rats in your house. Do you debate wit the rats ? Or do you just exterminate them ?

No white person is African

So using that logic are all blacks African and for example not English ?

[TitoFan]

Seeing Denilson take up the WS cause again is almost a relief.

He continues to post his stuff undeterred, and some of us have slowly given in to just reading it for entertainment value (?).

As strange as his views might seem to the rest of us, at least it's devoid of all the sheer savagery and personal animosity that accompanies the rest of these frigging exchanges.

[Gandalf]

For starters conflict should not be here on the Off Topic board which the General unlogged in public can see. So apologies for posting stuff on this board that is not helpful. As for taking a step back, I am more than willing to do that. I could never post again, but it would not resolve the problem. I have for months refused to use posters actual names, and yet it is now a forum game for many to go way past that and mention family members, post stuff outside of Saddos, (emails, Google searches etc). I don't share my work outside of Saddo on here, even when it is specifically boxing related, and yet now I have had to put up extra firewalls , do things like turn off all comments etc on media i produce and sites I maintain because posters insist on not just getting personal, but taking it way beyond the forum and outside of it. Crazy really.

There are also many new posters complaining outwardly about the blatant racism and stuff which is now just accepted across the boards. So it has definitely changed.

I have never encountered this kind of constant group hostility anywhere else. Certainly not in the real world. I admit I am probably pretty unrepresentative of a lot of posters because of what I do, how i live and who make up the world i live and work in, but I am not about to apologize for being myself, when it is a minority who can't handle that. I honestly don't find all this nasty conflict it fun at all. I will be very blunt and stand my ground and often that is interpreted as aggressive, even when it is clearly just plain speaking, and any humour i use just doesn't translate, so apologies for that. I again will be honest and admit that I find some posters to be so agonizingly straight (not sexually) and conventional that i find it impossible to connect with the way they think and post.

I would ask that people please PM me if they want to know something personal about my condition, my work etc, instead of hauling me over the coals publicly on here. And please don 't leave comments on my work outside, slagging off boxers, clients or the people featured in them . Just bloody ask me directly in a Pm or email or simply move on if a film or article offends or upsets you so much that you think you have a right to vent about it. I am going to give it a rest for a bit. I have been so busy with work I need the break. It does pain me on some levels because it has been brilliant work wise and I have had some fantastic experiences the last few weeks , firsts, that I would have enjoyed sharing, but then i log on here to a barrage of people insisting i must be angry, which still perplexes me, and I don't feel I can. If i am not among friends it is hardly worth doing so. I am really a very chilled out happy peaceful guy who just finds the level of dishonesty here a bit extraordinary of late. Memphis is right it used to be a great board, and was a fun place. I tried to keep that withe the retro threads etc but it seems that for some banging on about LGBT, IQ, RACE, POLITICS etc is their idea of fun. It certainly is not mine.

1. If things should be off the main boards why would you accuse me of mixing sleeping pills with alcohol on the main boxing board knowing that I dealt with Benzo addiction? Cruel. You said sorry but only after calling me histrionic.
2. Who are the new posters complaining about racism?
3. Have you never been called a Nazi or a sociopath? Oh, I feel so sad for you.
4. Do you think I find this conflict 'fun'?
5. I question you simply because I don't think you have been honest.
6. I am a very fun person, but when I decided games were fun, you would mock me even for that.
7. I don't play games anymore and read books and even that gets me condemned.
8. I love life. I have been through some trials and I love life so much you wouldn't believe.
8. But in saying that I am interested in politics and in turn IQ and what have you.

One cannot deny reality because one enjoys life. Either it is true or it isn't true and that is how we solve a hypothesis.