Article:Why Ali betrayed Malcolm X

[ricsan]

cc...... good read

[El Kabong]

It was principle, not to take away anything from the soldiers that did fight and died. It was principle man, Vietnam was not about defending the country, it was bout the US interefering with other nations, which they continue today.
To add with respect to religion as justification for not going to war, muslims are permitted to go to defensive war when someone attacks their home. Had Vietnam attacked he would not have dodged, but they didnt did they.

Communism was a real threat at that time and the US was not "interferring" as you said, FRANCE needed help in Vietnam and we went to help them and also we went to stop Communism.

If you want to blame anyone for Vietnam here are some to blame #1 FRANCE #2 Lyndon Johnson for micromanaging the war

[X]

Lyle - I am not an expert, but I don't think that the French were in Vietnam at all. I thought they were in Cambodia, fighting an entirely different war?

Yes, communism was seen as a threat at the time (but so was Saddam and his magical disappearing weapons of mass destruction). IN hindsight, I think most people agree that Vietnam was not the best move that the US ever made.

Still - I would not disagree with your views on the Nation of Islam

[gogs67]

Lyle - I am not an expert, but I don't think that the French were in Vietnam at all. I thought they were in Cambodia, fighting an entirely different war?

Yes, communism was seen as a threat at the time (but so was Saddam and his magical disappearing weapons of mass destruction). IN hindsight, I think most people agree that Vietnam was not the best move that the US ever made.

Still - I would not disagree with your views on the Nation of Islam

French Indochina was a federation of protectorates in Southeast Asia, part of the French colonial empire. It consisted of Cochin China, Tonkin, Annam (all of which now form Vietnam), Laos, and Cambodia.

On March 9, 1945, with France liberated, Germany in retreat, and the United States ascendant in the Pacific, Japan decided to take complete control of French Indochina. The Japanese kept power until the news of their government's surrender came though in August, after the atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

After the war, France attempted to reassert itself in the region, but came into conflict with the Viet Minh, an organization of Communist Vietnamese nationalists under French-educated Ho Chi Minh. During World War II, the United States had supported the Viet Minh in resistance against the Japanese; the group was in control of the country apart from the cities since the French gave way in March 1945. After persuading Emperor Bao Dai to abdicate in his favour, on September 2, 1945 Ho — as president — declared independence for the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. But before the end of September, a force of British, French and Indian soldiers, along with captured Japanese troops, restored French control. Bitter fighting ensued in the First Indochina War. In 1950 Ho again declared an independent Democratic Republic of Vietnam, which was recognized by the fellow Communist governments of China and the Soviet Union.

Fighting lasted until March 1954, when the Viet Minh won the decisive victory against French forces at the grueling Battle of Dien Bien Phu. This led to the partition of Vietnam into the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in the North, under Viet Minh control, and the State of Vietnam in the South, which had the support of the United States, the United Kingdom, and France. The events of 1954 also marked the end of French involvement in the region, and the beginnings of serious US commitment to South Vietnam which led to the Vietnam War.

The partition was agreed to at the Geneva Conference, where the United States of America, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, France and the People's Republic of China also settled a number of outstanding disputes relating to the Korean War. It was at this conference that France relinquished any claim to territory in the Indochinese peninsula. Laos and Cambodia also became independent in 1954, but were both drawn into the Vietnam War.

[SimonH]

I don't frown upon islam as a religion but the militant muslims will be the end of the world as we know it

Much like the Christians....

It does the religion no good, when supposed sane leaders like Bush and Blair, use their faith as crutch for their judgement, in going to war.

[El Kabong]

Thanks Gogs, cc

Britkid, you raise an interesting argument but how's this, I'm a christian and I would like to not be beheaded and I would like to not lose the war....is that an ok enough reason to not like the enemy?

[SimonH]

Thanks Gogs, cc

Britkid, you raise an interesting argument but how's this, I'm a christian and I would like to not be beheaded and I would like to not lose the war....is that an ok enough reason to not like the enemy?

The only way to resolve the matter, is for people to realise that religion and faith has no real meaning to it. When you die, you will either be burnt, or eaten by maggots. You were almost certainly, created in a star, you will almost defiantly, end up in a black hole.

But unlike Religion, if science can prove this wrong, I will change my mind....

[El Kabong]

Well the MAIN thing people need to take from religion is to be kind to each other and make life as easy as possible...When you die the main point you need to take from that is A) everyone does it B) they ain't on earth anymore C) if they were we wouldn't pay attention to them anyways.


So my message to the Jerry Falwell's and Pat Robertson's and to the Shah's and Clerics of Islam is "Chill you crazy bastards"

[SimonH]

Well the MAIN thing people need to take from religion is to be kind to each other and make life as easy as possible"

So without Religion you Lyle, would be a murdering rapist?

[AdamGB]

yeah... 'would'...