Why I’m hard on Loma, fair or foul?

[Beanz]

To be totally honest and fair. While Loma may be a little over-rated by some you do seem to have a massive issue with him Ron. It is not just begrudging respect from you, more like a bit of a desperate search for excuses to dismiss many of his achievements so far, which does leave me scratching my head a little.

[Ron Swanson]

To be totally honest and fair. While Loma may be a little over-rated by some you do seem to have a massive issue with him Ron. It is not just begrudging respect from you, more like a bit of a desperate search for excuses to dismiss many of his achievements so far, which does leave me scratching my head a little.

Explain, what achievement do I diminish? The time thing is fake, clearly, he fought as a pro and it’s completely ignored. And even if it wasn’t fake it doesn’t mean anything. What he has done by 31 is what he has done

FTR, I have him number 2 P4P.

[Beanz]

To be totally honest and fair. While Loma may be a little over-rated by some you do seem to have a massive issue with him Ron. It is not just begrudging respect from you, more like a bit of a desperate search for excuses to dismiss many of his achievements so far, which does leave me scratching my head a little.

Explain, what achievement do I diminish? The time thing is fake, clearly, he fought as a pro and it’s completely ignored. And even if it wasn’t fake it doesn’t mean anything. What he has done by 31 is what he has done

FTR, I have him number 2 P4P.

It is way too early for him to be given some of the accolades he has, but there is no denying the meteoric nature of his rise. You diminish that by pretending losing to Salido was any indication of his quality and by elevating Crawford into something he isn't yet. It took Crawford 22 fights before he was ready to go 12 rounds with Ricky Burns. God bless the guy, heart of a lion, but Ricky Burns was still dong Saturdays at his local shop at the time. You can't carry on pretending that the pro and amateur games are the same because of something like money either or that everyone is more gullible or less knowledgeable than you, or worse still, racist because they disagree. It undermines your whole argument.

If you believe in such an abstract thing as P4P and have him at 2 anyway I don't even see what your argument is really.

[Ron Swanson]

To be totally honest and fair. While Loma may be a little over-rated by some you do seem to have a massive issue with him Ron. It is not just begrudging respect from you, more like a bit of a desperate search for excuses to dismiss many of his achievements so far, which does leave me scratching my head a little.

Explain, what achievement do I diminish? The time thing is fake, clearly, he fought as a pro and it’s completely ignored. And even if it wasn’t fake it doesn’t mean anything. What he has done by 31 is what he has done

FTR, I have him number 2 P4P.

It is way too early for him to be given some of the accolades he has, but there is no denying the meteoric nature of his rise. You diminish that by pretending losing to Salido was any indication of his quality and by elevating Crawford into something he isn't yet. It took Crawford 22 fights before he was ready to go 12 rounds with Ricky Burns. God bless the guy, heart of a lion, but Ricky Burns was still dong Saturdays at his local shop at the time. You can't carry on pretending that the pro and amateur games are the same because of something like money either or that everyone is more gullible or less knowledgeable than you, or worse still, racist because they disagree. It undermines your whole argument.

If you believe in such an abstract thing as P4P and have him at 2 anyway I don't even see what your argument is really.

If people don’t see the blatant racism in boxing I genuinely pity them.

But that’s beside the point. Again, 22 fights, 2 fights, it doesn’t matter if they are both 26. Suggesting 2 26 year olds should be judged differently giving one guy both CREDIT for and a FREE PASS FROM is a double standard!

Time is not different, both 26, both fought for titles on the same day. Same is same, it’s not different.

This is why I find it frustrating. I am stating simple facts. Two guys that are the same age are the same age, this is not deniable.(technically there is like 5 months difference in age but c’mon, that’s the same) The same day is the same day, this is not deniable. The amount of time between 3/1/2014 and now is the same for both. These are undeniable facts

My argument is not against his greatness. My point is people shouldn’t give value to fake things like fast. This should be really simple to see “what you have done by 31 is what you have done”, it should not be an argument. But somehow it is. Not only do I have to give him credit for what he has done but also bonus points for something meaningless. My issue is entirely on the fake bonus, you see every argument is about the fake bonus.

[Beanz]

To be totally honest and fair. While Loma may be a little over-rated by some you do seem to have a massive issue with him Ron. It is not just begrudging respect from you, more like a bit of a desperate search for excuses to dismiss many of his achievements so far, which does leave me scratching my head a little.

Explain, what achievement do I diminish? The time thing is fake, clearly, he fought as a pro and it’s completely ignored. And even if it wasn’t fake it doesn’t mean anything. What he has done by 31 is what he has done

FTR, I have him number 2 P4P.

It is way too early for him to be given some of the accolades he has, but there is no denying the meteoric nature of his rise. You diminish that by pretending losing to Salido was any indication of his quality and by elevating Crawford into something he isn't yet. It took Crawford 22 fights before he was ready to go 12 rounds with Ricky Burns. God bless the guy, heart of a lion, but Ricky Burns was still dong Saturdays at his local shop at the time. You can't carry on pretending that the pro and amateur games are the same because of something like money either or that everyone is more gullible or less knowledgeable than you, or worse still, racist because they disagree. It undermines your whole argument.

If you believe in such an abstract thing as P4P and have him at 2 anyway I don't even see what your argument is really.

If people don’t see the blatant racism in boxing I genuinely pity them.

But that’s beside the point. Again, 22 fights, 2 fights, it doesn’t matter if they are both 26. Suggesting 2 26 year olds should be judged differently giving one guy both CREDIT for and a FREE PASS FROM is a double standard!

Time is not different, both 26, both fought for titles on the same day. Same is same, it’s not different.

This is why I find it frustrating. I am stating simple facts. Two guys that are the same age are the same age, this is not deniable.(technically there is like 5 months difference in age but c’mon, that’s the same) The same day is the same day, this is not deniable. The amount of time between 3/1/2014 and now is the same for both. These are undeniable facts

My argument is not against his greatness. My point is people shouldn’t give value to fake things like fast. This should be really simple to see “what you have done by 31 is what you have done”, it should not be an argument. But somehow it is. Not only do I have to give him credit for what he has done but also bonus points for something meaningless. My issue is entirely on the fake bonus, you see every argument is about the fake bonus.

I agree it is much harder to make it to the top if you are a European.


I think the fake bonus thing is not so much fake as over emphasized. The guy had way less professional fights to get to were he is and that is more than just a little unusual. You can't just pretend it isn't there. It is indisputable. Campbell removed some of that shine but again I think his problems adjusting to the pro game has made him under-rated. His loss to Mendy led to many just dismissing him but boxing does not work like that.

[Primo Carnera]

To be totally honest and fair. While Loma may be a little over-rated by some you do seem to have a massive issue with him Ron. It is not just begrudging respect from you, more like a bit of a desperate search for excuses to dismiss many of his achievements so far, which does leave me scratching my head a little.

Explain, what achievement do I diminish? The time thing is fake, clearly, he fought as a pro and it’s completely ignored. And even if it wasn’t fake it doesn’t mean anything. What he has done by 31 is what he has done

FTR, I have him number 2 P4P.

It is way too early for him to be given some of the accolades he has, but there is no denying the meteoric nature of his rise. You diminish that by pretending losing to Salido was any indication of his quality and by elevating Crawford into something he isn't yet. It took Crawford 22 fights before he was ready to go 12 rounds with Ricky Burns. God bless the guy, heart of a lion, but Ricky Burns was still dong Saturdays at his local shop at the time. You can't carry on pretending that the pro and amateur games are the same because of something like money either or that everyone is more gullible or less knowledgeable than you, or worse still, racist because they disagree. It undermines your whole argument.

If you believe in such an abstract thing as P4P and have him at 2 anyway I don't even see what your argument is really.

If people don’t see the blatant racism in boxing I genuinely pity them.

But that’s beside the point. Again, 22 fights, 2 fights, it doesn’t matter if they are both 26. Suggesting 2 26 year olds should be judged differently giving one guy both CREDIT for and a FREE PASS FROM is a double standard!

Time is not different, both 26, both fought for titles on the same day. Same is same, it’s not different.

This is why I find it frustrating. I am stating simple facts. Two guys that are the same age are the same age, this is not deniable.(technically there is like 5 months difference in age but c’mon, that’s the same) The same day is the same day, this is not deniable. The amount of time between 3/1/2014 and now is the same for both. These are undeniable facts

My argument is not against his greatness. My point is people shouldn’t give value to fake things like fast. This should be really simple to see “what you have done by 31 is what you have done”, it should not be an argument. But somehow it is. Not only do I have to give him credit for what he has done but also bonus points for something meaningless. My issue is entirely on the fake bonus, you see every argument is about the fake bonus.

Now I’m very close to your View on Loma and some of the points you made. But to bang on about “Blatant Racism in Boxing” is wrong.
Nearly all the greatest ever fighters are black, nearly all the richest fighters ever are black. I’m not sure where the racism is?
I certainly see racism in many other sports , and certainly in certain aspects of life in general, but not really in Boxing.
I genuinely think the problem is with the media. There is so much money in the sport right now, and consequently in order to “justify” that , along with the sports biggest ever earner exiting stage left, they need to manufacture a “Legend”
Loma is a lovely fighter, and I don’t think you’ve been disrespectful to him in any way. I just believe he has been overhyped.
He’s arguably the greatest Amateur that has ever lived, but in order to make that legacy, it is to the detriment of his pro career, because he simply won’t have time to reach greatness in my opinion.
I don’t believe he will ever be p4p #1 . But hey, I might be wrong.

[sanatogen]

Loma has packed plenty of names into his short pro career.
The hype has been way OTT, but at least Loma walks it, despite the hype not coming from him or his training camp.

Fans enjoy the fights of his short Pro career while it lasts.Young boxers enjoy his demonstrations e.g the one he gave recently at a London club.

Racism? Kindly elaborate for discussion.

[Spicoli]

Loma from the get go was about instant super stardom and all the rewards from fighter to promoter that came with it. I don't see this particular racism angle in regards to Crawford v Loma. Honestly I wasn't fond of Loma and the microwave type push he had rolled out to him based on Amatuer and Gold medal accolades from the beginning. It was surreal to see a guy handed a title shot as headliner on HBO in only his second 'pro' fight. He was HBO ppv in debut. I remember De La Hoya making his post Gold medal debut as some 6 rounder v the guy running the beer stand at the Great Western Forum. But honestly and with respect to some ok'ish guys over his first year..you could have skipped them all and gone 1-0 right into his 1st trinket too. It's padding as much as it's a normal mostly excepted process for a fighter of high caliber to showcase..market..grow seats and fans before having it handed a trinket on a silver platter. The learning craft and honing skills feels secondary for some early on. No sane individual can deny Lomas skill and he is very much a pleasure to watch aside from some clowning and mocking from time to time. But rarely if ever has a fighter been given the opportunities, for the sake of a promoter too, that he has been given. Every record in history can be torn apart but truth be told aside from Walters and Russell Jr, Linares on the rebound just to get ko'd next, where were these fresh undefeated top division threats he vanquished. Rigo again two divisions is two divisions. Feel the same way about it as with Mikey up for Spence, Brook up for GGG so on and so forth. I don't mind Loma at all but make no mistake right now he and Arum more so are about collecting trinkets, not being involved in super fights.