Ken Shamrock vs Tito Ortiz

[mucho testosterone]

I hate Matts attitude, but this BJ Penn bandwagon bullshit is out of control.

And the whole rib thing makes me even more pissed. If your in a fight, and you get hurt then thats part of losing. Part of this whole thing is about durability. BJ didn't come in with this injury......this is damage he took in the fight so why the fuck is everyone using this as an excuse for BJ?

[mucho testosterone]

As far as Ken and Tito goes.........well you're 42 and you're not Randy Couture...what do you expect Ken??

You made your mark and your place in UFC history will be secured forever...you probably would have handed Tito his ass 12 years ago but it's time.

[Heavy D]

Pulling/Straining a rib IS an excuse for why he lost. Doesn't take away from Matts win, because a win is a win is a win, but it doesn't make Matt a better fighter, but BJ a worse. Matts performace was terrible until BJ hurt himself, and then he took EXCELLENT advantage of it.

[mucho testosterone]

My point is that being a fighter requires that you have durability. Everyone is making it sound like it had nothing to do with fighing Matt. I think it's fair to say that Matt seperated his ribs just by being too strong for BJ. I will totally admit that it really didn't look good for Matt in the outset BUT
Since when is being fragile in a fight an excuse?

[Majesty]

My point is that being a fighter requires that you have durability. Everyone is making it sound like it had nothing to do with fighing Matt. I think it's fair to say that Matt seperated his ribs just by being too strong for BJ. I will totally admit that it really didn't look good for Matt in the outset BUT
Since when is being fragile in a fight an excuse?

Depends on if Matt caused the injury and took advantage of it. But nobody gives Byrd the credit for beating Vitali now do they

[mucho testosterone]

My point is that being a fighter requires that you have durability. Everyone is making it sound like it had nothing to do with fighing Matt. I think it's fair to say that Matt seperated his ribs just by being too strong for BJ. I will totally admit that it really didn't look good for Matt in the outset BUT
Since when is being fragile in a fight an excuse?

Depends on if Matt caused the injury and took advantage of it. But nobody gives Byrd the credit for beating Vitali now do they

BJ got his ass beat. sorry

[Heavy D]

Watching the fight and taking BJs word for it, he injured himself taking Matt's back. As you watch, you can see that he really bends himself very awkwardly taking his back, so it seems like a legit pull to me, and one caused by himself moreso than Matt. Like I said...I still give him credit for surviving the first two rounds (albeit barely in the second round ) and being able to capitalize on BJs injury. BJ injured could probably still wipe out the majority of the UFC WW division.

[mucho testosterone]

I don't know man........we'll see how eager BJ is for that rematch.

[Majesty]

My point is that being a fighter requires that you have durability. Everyone is making it sound like it had nothing to do with fighing Matt. I think it's fair to say that Matt seperated his ribs just by being too strong for BJ. I will totally admit that it really didn't look good for Matt in the outset BUT
Since when is being fragile in a fight an excuse?

Depends on if Matt caused the injury and took advantage of it. But nobody gives Byrd the credit for beating Vitali now do they

BJ got his ass beat. sorry

Check Heavy D's post The injury was legit and one that BJ caused on himself

[Heavy D]

Yeah...to paraphrase, he basically seperated one of his ribs from his sternum and tore the connecting tissue (ligaments i think in this case, or are they tendons?) or something to that effect. It's considered a fracture even though technically no bone has been broken. It was caused by the strain from bending at that angle I mentioned when taking his back.


So like I said, I still give Hughes credit for taking advantage of the injury, just not for causing it. And kudos to Penn for sticking through the injury and STILL almost winning the fight.

[Majesty]

Shamrock vs. Otriz I Bad Blood

Shamrock vs. Ortiz II Rivals

Shamrock vs. Ortix III Total Redundancy

[mucho testosterone]

Like I said....lets just see how eager BJ is to step back in the ring with Hughes.


BJ did it by himself?? WTF?? no, he did it fighting an opponent. He wasn't surfing, or playing raquetball, or video games or whathaveyou...he was in the middle of a struggle with another opponent and he broke!

Plain and simple. His body failed under pressure while fighting someone else....simple concept to me.

Now If you were one of the fans who did want to see BJ win, then the news about the seperated rib was an early christmas present because it gives you an excuse for the ugly nature in which that fight was finished by Hughes. Lets' be realistic here, there were punches and bodies clashing in the ring. Why didn't Hughes seperate a rib

Why didn't he tap out after that traingle attempt at the of round 2??

Why didn't he go down after getting popped on the chin by BJ for the first round

The answer lies in durability friends....these guys are FIGHTERS, and not boxers but MIXED MARTIAL ARTS FIGHTERS....there is grappling and durability is a prerequisite.

Dude got his ass kicked. He was getting popped in the head over and over and over.......until it was stopped. Thats it. Simple.

[Heavy D]

If by "dude" you mean "Matt Hughes" then absolutely. Why can't you face the fact that Matt Hughes looked like a red headed stepchild after thirsty thursday? BJ Penn absolutely dominated Hughes for two rounds. He outstruck the hell out of him, made a complete mockery of his takedown attempts, and damned near submitted him. It wasn't until his OWN actions caused him to injure himself that Matt was able to do anything (and not even then...he needed the round to end to turn his luck around).

After Hughes was injured, Hughes STILL couldn't knock him out, despite the fact that he was a friggin punching bag. He was flat footed with his hands down and essentially LETTING Hughes tee off on him. When he had Penn down in the crucifix-esque mount, he STILL couldn't finish the fight....he just "pummeled" him with weak shots until the ref called the fight....BJ most likely could have survived another three or so minutes of that and come out for another round.

Hughes put on a terrible performance, and only won because of a freak injury. His body DID fail under pressure, but that has nothing to do with "durability." That's like calling someone weak for rolling their ankle and it hurting. It's just a freak accident that happens and hurts. And if BJs durability shows anywhere, its the fact that he STILL almost managed to submit Hughes after being injured, and STILL came into the ring for the third round with the injury, and Hughes STILL couldn't knock him out standing and STILL couldn't submit him on the ground. His shots were NOT hurting Penn in any serious way. Penn should have been out cold or tapping at the end of that fight, not ref stoppage. Hughes had NO reason not to conclusively finish that fight against an injured opponent.

So by your reasoning, this fight shows that both fighters were durable and both were unable to finish the fight, making them both great fighters and terrible at the same time.