The Brexit Thread

[Beanz]

1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.

[Gandalf]

1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.

Mental.

[Beanz]

1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.

Mental.

Yes it is mental. Listen to yourselves how arrogant and dishonest you both are.

So El Kabong can lecture us all on how democracy is the tyranny of the majority and then in the same breath suggest that I am a remainer which makes me a spoilt brat who wants to fuck the country up by giving people a chance to exercise their democratic rights. He then goes on to define what it means to be British on behalf of Brits

"and yeah you TOTALLY have more in common with Europe than the United States not like we share ancestry or language or culture at all...I do love that you see it that way, because you would, you're European, you've admitted as much "My family Germany, my family France"....what is British about you exactly? You speak like a pirate? You enjoy gin? You like punk rock?

I expect Swedes to be self loathing, but it hurts my heart when it's Brits....fucking pathetic. "

It is mental. You are both extremists pretending anyone not as stupid or bigoted as both of you are are the very thing you have always been.

Political idealogues obsessed with identity politics. How many white people there are, what constitutes being 'correct' in your eyes, the PC agenda you bring into everything. Your posts dominate EVERY thread on the forum. It's tiresome because it is bluster and bullshit from opinionated kids at best. Meanwhile all the actual men have to hold their tongue while you both tell us all how everything is on every subject, including our own lives.

I started this thread two years ago to bemoan the Tories NOT implementing the mess they engineered and you both twisted like a fucking pretzel to suggest that it was me and those who never asked for it who were responsible for the shit show it has turned into.

That is truly mental.

[Master]

Beanz I think El Kabong is listening and asking genuine questions. He is suspicious and sceptical which is healthy but insulting him at every opportunity does not serve the argument.

[El Kabong]

Beanz you've obviously had some wires crossed in my explaining about what a Democracy is as a system of government vs what a Democratic action is such as voting on a referendum. I apologize for any confusion.

As for Corbyn



"And they will get the chance for a public vote under a Labour government between REMAIN and a credible option which we will negotiate with the European Union"



....so it's Remain then

[Beanz]

Beanz I think El Kabong is listening and asking genuine questions. He is suspicious and sceptical which is healthy but insulting him at every opportunity does not serve the argument.

Why is he even being entertained? The guy has insulted Brits here for years with his condescending rubbish and his loud trousers. Are you suggesting that actually trying to educate him about what being British actually means is like he suggests 'being self loathing"? It is astonishing how his and Gandalf's racist bollocks is just accepted. He is incredibly patronizing and ill informed and I am doing the fuckwit a favour. He is not just sceptical he is paranoid and gullible in the way some people are at 17 years old, but not as adults. It is embarrassing reading his crap on his behalf.

It really is crazy how two people who don't live here seem to think they have the right to dictate how others in the UK should think, how they should act, how they should think of themselves , what there ethnic makeup should be before they are prepared to accept you as an Englishman or a Brit. The disdain for Britain from the pair of them pours out of their posting history. They don't give a shit about our country. Until three years ago they never mentioned the EU and now here they are getting all high and mighty demanding what should happen in a country neither of them live in.

It is more than mental, it shows what control freaks the pair are. They have to dominate the conversation even when it does not concern them.

[El Kabong]

Beanz I think El Kabong is listening and asking genuine questions. He is suspicious and sceptical which is healthy but insulting him at every opportunity does not serve the argument.

Why is he even being entertained? The guy has insulted Brits here for years with his condescending rubbish and his loud trousers. Are you suggesting that actually trying to educate him about what being British actually means is like he suggests 'being self loathing"? It is astonishing how his and Gandalf's racist bollocks is just accepted. He is incredibly patronizing and ill informed and I am doing the fuckwit a favour. He is not just sceptical he is paranoid and gullible in the way some people are at 17 years old, but not as adults. It is embarrassing reading his crap on his behalf.

It really is crazy how two people who don't live here seem to think they have the right to dictate how others in the UK should think, how they should act, how they should think of themselves , what there ethnic makeup should be before they are prepared to accept you as an Englishman or a Brit. The disdain for Britain from the pair of them pours out of their posting history. They don't give a shit about our country. Until three years ago they never mentioned the EU and now here they are getting all high and mighty demanding what should happen in a country neither of them live in.

It is more than mental, it shows what control freaks the pair are. They have to dominate the conversation even when it does not concern them.

Well I've had enough of this. I hold no political power, I'm merely stating my views and I guess I'm not allowed to do that in your presence Beanz because you can't be bothered to not read what I post. If I was ANY of the things you accused me of being the Mods would have flushed me from the site long ago and with legitimate reasons too.


@Beanz, enjoy your forum, I hope that nobody dares disagree with you ever again

[walrus]

Beanz I think El Kabong is listening and asking genuine questions. He is suspicious and sceptical which is healthy but insulting him at every opportunity does not serve the argument.

Why is he even being entertained? The guy has insulted Brits here for years with his condescending rubbish and his loud trousers. Are you suggesting that actually trying to educate him about what being British actually means is like he suggests 'being self loathing"? It is astonishing how his and Gandalf's racist bollocks is just accepted. He is incredibly patronizing and ill informed and I am doing the fuckwit a favour. He is not just sceptical he is paranoid and gullible in the way some people are at 17 years old, but not as adults. It is embarrassing reading his crap on his behalf.

It really is crazy how two people who don't live here seem to think they have the right to dictate how others in the UK should think, how they should act, how they should think of themselves , what there ethnic makeup should be before they are prepared to accept you as an Englishman or a Brit. The disdain for Britain from the pair of them pours out of their posting history. They don't give a shit about our country. Until three years ago they never mentioned the EU and now here they are getting all high and mighty demanding what should happen in a country neither of them live in.

It is more than mental, it shows what control freaks the pair are. They have to dominate the conversation even when it does not concern them.

Well I've had enough of this. I hold no political power, I'm merely stating my views and I guess I'm not allowed to do that in your presence Beanz because you can't be bothered to not read what I post. If I was ANY of the things you accused me of being the Mods would have flushed me from the site long ago and with legitimate reasons too.


@Beanz, enjoy your forum, I hope that nobody dares disagree with you ever again

beaner that was a little over the top even for you. The attack trump from every possible angle is frequent here, so what it really doesn’t mean much it’s just people talking. It’s just a forum and there are really only a handful of people saying anything. Now it looks like elkabongo got tired of it and will leave for a while. It just doesn’t seem that big of a deal

[Beanz]

Beanz I think El Kabong is listening and asking genuine questions. He is suspicious and sceptical which is healthy but insulting him at every opportunity does not serve the argument.

Why is he even being entertained? The guy has insulted Brits here for years with his condescending rubbish and his loud trousers. Are you suggesting that actually trying to educate him about what being British actually means is like he suggests 'being self loathing"? It is astonishing how his and Gandalf's racist bollocks is just accepted. He is incredibly patronizing and ill informed and I am doing the fuckwit a favour. He is not just sceptical he is paranoid and gullible in the way some people are at 17 years old, but not as adults. It is embarrassing reading his crap on his behalf.

It really is crazy how two people who don't live here seem to think they have the right to dictate how others in the UK should think, how they should act, how they should think of themselves , what there ethnic makeup should be before they are prepared to accept you as an Englishman or a Brit. The disdain for Britain from the pair of them pours out of their posting history. They don't give a shit about our country. Until three years ago they never mentioned the EU and now here they are getting all high and mighty demanding what should happen in a country neither of them live in.

It is more than mental, it shows what control freaks the pair are. They have to dominate the conversation even when it does not concern them.

Well I've had enough of this. I hold no political power, I'm merely stating my views and I guess I'm not allowed to do that in your presence Beanz because you can't be bothered to not read what I post. If I was ANY of the things you accused me of being the Mods would have flushed me from the site long ago and with legitimate reasons too.


@Beanz, enjoy your forum, I hope that nobody dares disagree with you ever again

Enough already of the poor me bollocks. Nobody has said you can not disagree, but stop pretending that calling me 'self loathing, a traitor, not even British, etc' is not insulting. You even attacked my family as though that was fine because in your eyes they are not Brits and then you wonder why people think you are racist? Everyone but Kirk treats you with kid gloves and you post more than ANYONE by a huge margin. So don't pretend because someone refuses to blow smoke up your arse that means it is 'their' forum. You and Gandalf post way more than me and just don't like being challenged in any meaningful way. Neither of you ever respond when the rubbish you post is revealed to be bullshit, you just pretend it never happened

Swedes are not self loathing so stop slagging them off. It is a far better country than yours in millions of ways. That of course is just my opinion but it is not based on identity politics and what some youtube knob or alt right fool tells me is true.

[Gandalf]

1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.

Mental.

Yes it is mental. Listen to yourselves how arrogant and dishonest you both are.

So El Kabong can lecture us all on how democracy is the tyranny of the majority and then in the same breath suggest that I am a remainer which makes me a spoilt brat who wants to fuck the country up by giving people a chance to exercise their democratic rights. He then goes on to define what it means to be British on behalf of Brits

"and yeah you TOTALLY have more in common with Europe than the United States not like we share ancestry or language or culture at all...I do love that you see it that way, because you would, you're European, you've admitted as much "My family Germany, my family France"....what is British about you exactly? You speak like a pirate? You enjoy gin? You like punk rock?

I expect Swedes to be self loathing, but it hurts my heart when it's Brits....fucking pathetic. "

It is mental. You are both extremists pretending anyone not as stupid or bigoted as both of you are are the very thing you have always been.

Political idealogues obsessed with identity politics. How many white people there are, what constitutes being 'correct' in your eyes, the PC agenda you bring into everything. Your posts dominate EVERY thread on the forum. It's tiresome because it is bluster and bullshit from opinionated kids at best. Meanwhile all the actual men have to hold their tongue while you both tell us all how everything is on every subject, including our own lives.

I started this thread two years ago to bemoan the Tories NOT implementing the mess they engineered and you both twisted like a fucking pretzel to suggest that it was me and those who never asked for it who were responsible for the shit show it has turned into.

That is truly mental.

What is dishonest about arguing that Britain should be operating on a national state level with no orders coming from a command beyond the country? How is arguing for what most countries in the world have extreme? On the contrary, I consider you an absolute extremist and a traitor to your country. David Starkey would probably argue as much too. How arrogant to enforce a system on a populace without their consent and to then defend it? That is outrageous.

The tyranny of the majority? You mean the most democratic way of running things which is where a referendum actually gets to determine the path of the country. Do you see me calling for a new Scottish referendum? You have absolutely no respect for the will of the people. You are more interested in self interested things rather than the purity of democracy. Lyle is entitled to his view. It is not as though you can shut up about Donald Trump or America so do not be such a brazen hypocrite. Good on Lyle for agreeing with the majority.

At the end of the day you have declared yourself a European, whilst the majority of people see themselves as British more than anything else. I have never been part of this European project and I never will be. It is true that all we hear from you is about how much of your family does not live in the UK and how for you it is about keeping those avenues open. Like I say though, if your family wants to live overseas, then they can. Nobody is stopping them. It is you being histrionic about medicine when that is very unlikely there will be shortages.

Lyle is also right to point out the 'self loathing'. You appear to be an obvious case in point. You have absolutely zero faith in Britain as an independent functioning nation. It is amazing really. Starkey would argue that you hate Britain and would put you in that snobbish class that looks down on cashiers as you are too arty to work like anyone else. They should serve you, but you don't want to be one.

Sweden has destroyed itself as a country. I mean, do you not recognize that it has done so through a a lack of pride in who they are? Britain has done the same and we shouldn't feel bad about anything, but instead stand firm and show the rest of Europe what it means to be disciplined and strong. It is alright for you in homogeneous Plymouth, but you are so far away from what others are seeing. You are as out of touch as me except I do pay close attention of course, but not through your lefty clap trap. You are even being advised not to integrate immigrants as it will upset them. Why are you letting them in then? And you know which groups use the most welfare right?

Extreme? Hmm. Sensible border policies, national self respect and not wanting a super state akin to the USSR is now extreme? I would argue the opposite and that you are extreme. A zealot. An ideologue. Someone who never cedes an argument. Never alters his thinking. Never alters course. An extremist is what you are.

Culture matters and demographics matter and changes to communities matter. My own perspective and experience is that when these things are done carefully the impact is minimal. When you go crazy as the UK has, then you end up with problems. That is unfortunate, but the result of genuine extremism that you indeed have supported.

If you don't want to hear things that upset you, then go away. Nobody cares about your family or Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. It is neither here nor there with anybody. It is simply a discussion about national self determination and that seems to really send you over the deep end and people disagree with you. You are a rude, vulgar and horrible old man.

Independence, self determination, and moderation are not extremist values in the slightest. They are tenets of moral and social conservatism.

[walrus]

1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.

Mental.

Yes it is mental. Listen to yourselves how arrogant and dishonest you both are.

So El Kabong can lecture us all on how democracy is the tyranny of the majority and then in the same breath suggest that I am a remainer which makes me a spoilt brat who wants to fuck the country up by giving people a chance to exercise their democratic rights. He then goes on to define what it means to be British on behalf of Brits

"and yeah you TOTALLY have more in common with Europe than the United States not like we share ancestry or language or culture at all...I do love that you see it that way, because you would, you're European, you've admitted as much "My family Germany, my family France"....what is British about you exactly? You speak like a pirate? You enjoy gin? You like punk rock?

I expect Swedes to be self loathing, but it hurts my heart when it's Brits....fucking pathetic. "

It is mental. You are both extremists pretending anyone not as stupid or bigoted as both of you are are the very thing you have always been.

Political idealogues obsessed with identity politics. How many white people there are, what constitutes being 'correct' in your eyes, the PC agenda you bring into everything. Your posts dominate EVERY thread on the forum. It's tiresome because it is bluster and bullshit from opinionated kids at best. Meanwhile all the actual men have to hold their tongue while you both tell us all how everything is on every subject, including our own lives.

I started this thread two years ago to bemoan the Tories NOT implementing the mess they engineered and you both twisted like a fucking pretzel to suggest that it was me and those who never asked for it who were responsible for the shit show it has turned into.

That is truly mental.

What is dishonest about arguing that Britain should be operating on a national state level with no orders coming from a command beyond the country? How is arguing for what most countries in the world have extreme? On the contrary, I consider you an absolute extremist and a traitor to your country. David Starkey would probably argue as much too. How arrogant to enforce a system on a populace without their consent and to then defend it? That is outrageous.

The tyranny of the majority? You mean the most democratic way of running things which is where a referendum actually gets to determine the path of the country. Do you see me calling for a new Scottish referendum? You have absolutely no respect for the will of the people. You are more interested in self interested things rather than the purity of democracy. Lyle is entitled to his view. It is not as though you can shut up about Donald Trump or America so do not be such a brazen hypocrite. Good on Lyle for agreeing with the majority.

At the end of the day you have declared yourself a European, whilst the majority of people see themselves as British more than anything else. I have never been part of this European project and I never will be. It is true that all we hear from you is about how much of your family does not live in the UK and how for you it is about keeping those avenues open. Like I say though, if your family wants to live overseas, then they can. Nobody is stopping them. It is you being histrionic about medicine when that is very unlikely there will be shortages.

Lyle is also right to point out the 'self loathing'. You appear to be an obvious case in point. You have absolutely zero faith in Britain as an independent functioning nation. It is amazing really. Starkey would argue that you hate Britain and would put you in that snobbish class that looks down on cashiers as you are too arty to work like anyone else. They should serve you, but you don't want to be one.

Sweden has destroyed itself as a country. I mean, do you not recognize that it has done so through a a lack of pride in who they are? Britain has done the same and we shouldn't feel bad about anything, but instead stand firm and show the rest of Europe what it means to be disciplined and strong. It is alright for you in homogeneous Plymouth, but you are so far away from what others are seeing. You are as out of touch as me except I do pay close attention of course, but not through your lefty clap trap. You are even being advised not to integrate immigrants as it will upset them. Why are you letting them in then? And you know which groups use the most welfare right?

Extreme? Hmm. Sensible border policies, national self respect and not wanting a super state akin to the USSR is now extreme? I would argue the opposite and that you are extreme. A zealot. An ideologue. Someone who never cedes an argument. Never alters his thinking. Never alters course. An extremist is what you are.

Culture matters and demographics matter and changes to communities matter. My own perspective and experience is that when these things are done carefully the impact is minimal. When you go crazy as the UK has, then you end up with problems. That is unfortunate, but the result of genuine extremism that you indeed have supported.

If you don't want to hear things that upset you, then go away. Nobody cares about your family or Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. It is neither here nor there with anybody. It is simply a discussion about national self determination and that seems to really send you over the deep end and people disagree with you. You are a rude, vulgar and horrible old man.

Independence, self determination, and moderation are not extremist values in the slightest. They are tenets of moral and social conservatism.

Beaner that quote “tyranny of the majority” was used by Ben Franklin, or one of the founding fathers, it was just used in context not throwing democracy in the trash. It could have been Madison I can’t remember I need to google it.

[Beanz]

1. Prevent No Deal Chaos as a first priority.
2. Remove the Tories - who created this Brexit mess - from power.
3. Renegotiate an EU deal that doesn't involve annihilating the economy, trashing our rights and living standards, or triggering violent chaos by erecting a border in Ireland.
4. Hold a final say referendum with a sensible option for both sides, neither of which involve utterly wrecking the economy (between the two least-bad outcomes).

A notable problem with this strategy is that the ideological militants at either side both absolutely hate it, and they're capable of making an awful lot of noise.

The loudest of them not only do not even live here, they have the arrogance to suggest that you are not 'British' if you disagree, or if you do not fit into their caricature plastic version of what they think being British is, because they generally have moobs and are condescending American cunts or are skinny fuckers who think living outside of the UK means they are superior to most Brits.

Mental.

Yes it is mental. Listen to yourselves how arrogant and dishonest you both are.

So El Kabong can lecture us all on how democracy is the tyranny of the majority and then in the same breath suggest that I am a remainer which makes me a spoilt brat who wants to fuck the country up by giving people a chance to exercise their democratic rights. He then goes on to define what it means to be British on behalf of Brits

"and yeah you TOTALLY have more in common with Europe than the United States not like we share ancestry or language or culture at all...I do love that you see it that way, because you would, you're European, you've admitted as much "My family Germany, my family France"....what is British about you exactly? You speak like a pirate? You enjoy gin? You like punk rock?

I expect Swedes to be self loathing, but it hurts my heart when it's Brits....fucking pathetic. "

It is mental. You are both extremists pretending anyone not as stupid or bigoted as both of you are are the very thing you have always been.

Political idealogues obsessed with identity politics. How many white people there are, what constitutes being 'correct' in your eyes, the PC agenda you bring into everything. Your posts dominate EVERY thread on the forum. It's tiresome because it is bluster and bullshit from opinionated kids at best. Meanwhile all the actual men have to hold their tongue while you both tell us all how everything is on every subject, including our own lives.

I started this thread two years ago to bemoan the Tories NOT implementing the mess they engineered and you both twisted like a fucking pretzel to suggest that it was me and those who never asked for it who were responsible for the shit show it has turned into.

That is truly mental.

What is dishonest about arguing that Britain should be operating on a national state level with no orders coming from a command beyond the country? How is arguing for what most countries in the world have extreme? On the contrary, I consider you an absolute extremist and a traitor to your country. David Starkey would probably argue as much too. How arrogant to enforce a system on a populace without their consent and to then defend it? That is outrageous.

The tyranny of the majority? You mean the most democratic way of running things which is where a referendum actually gets to determine the path of the country. Do you see me calling for a new Scottish referendum? You have absolutely no respect for the will of the people. You are more interested in self interested things rather than the purity of democracy. Lyle is entitled to his view. It is not as though you can shut up about Donald Trump or America so do not be such a brazen hypocrite. Good on Lyle for agreeing with the majority.

At the end of the day you have declared yourself a European, whilst the majority of people see themselves as British more than anything else. I have never been part of this European project and I never will be. It is true that all we hear from you is about how much of your family does not live in the UK and how for you it is about keeping those avenues open. Like I say though, if your family wants to live overseas, then they can. Nobody is stopping them. It is you being histrionic about medicine when that is very unlikely there will be shortages.

Lyle is also right to point out the 'self loathing'. You appear to be an obvious case in point. You have absolutely zero faith in Britain as an independent functioning nation. It is amazing really. Starkey would argue that you hate Britain and would put you in that snobbish class that looks down on cashiers as you are too arty to work like anyone else. They should serve you, but you don't want to be one.

Sweden has destroyed itself as a country. I mean, do you not recognize that it has done so through a a lack of pride in who they are? Britain has done the same and we shouldn't feel bad about anything, but instead stand firm and show the rest of Europe what it means to be disciplined and strong. It is alright for you in homogeneous Plymouth, but you are so far away from what others are seeing. You are as out of touch as me except I do pay close attention of course, but not through your lefty clap trap. You are even being advised not to integrate immigrants as it will upset them. Why are you letting them in then? And you know which groups use the most welfare right?

Extreme? Hmm. Sensible border policies, national self respect and not wanting a super state akin to the USSR is now extreme? I would argue the opposite and that you are extreme. A zealot. An ideologue. Someone who never cedes an argument. Never alters his thinking. Never alters course. An extremist is what you are.

Culture matters and demographics matter and changes to communities matter. My own perspective and experience is that when these things are done carefully the impact is minimal. When you go crazy as the UK has, then you end up with problems. That is unfortunate, but the result of genuine extremism that you indeed have supported.

If you don't want to hear things that upset you, then go away. Nobody cares about your family or Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. It is neither here nor there with anybody. It is simply a discussion about national self determination and that seems to really send you over the deep end and people disagree with you. You are a rude, vulgar and horrible old man.

Independence, self determination, and moderation are not extremist values in the slightest. They are tenets of moral and social conservatism.

Beaner that quote “tyranny of the majority” was used by Ben Franklin, or one of the founding fathers, it was just used in context not throwing democracy in the trash. It could have been Madison I can’t remember I need to google it.

El Kabong used it and I was quoting him.

[Beanz]

GANDALF

Britain does operate on a state level, but if it were not for several EU interventions we would be far worse off. Workers rights, the environment, Food safety and Quality etc. You seem to be suggesting that your rabid night time fantasies of an EU Fascist State ordering the Tories to privatise everything is a fact. It isn't. It is just another mealy mouth apology from a cowardly cunt that cannot bring himself to admit he turned his back on his own country years ago. I live here mate. I contribute to this country and brought my family up here. It wasn't the EU that sold off the housing stock or cut police numbers or started to privatise the NHS that was your crew. The people even now you are actively endorsing as they smash our country up and divide the spoils among themselves.

The tyranny of the majority is what El Kabong said not me. This is what I mean about you being a lying cunt. Go back to the opening post in this thread that I started and tell me where i said that I did not respect the will of the people. I have never said that. You are forced to invent that position to justify your extremist stance.

Nobody forced you to leave this country as an economic migrant. Nobody is forcing you to live alone in a city away from your wife so that you only have to work half days. You have this massive bee in your bonnet with anyone who does what you either cannot or choose not to do. That is your problem. I have certainly done my fair share of manual and unskilled jobs in my working life but I am not about to apologise for not doing them now as I approach my 50's. I didn't win the lottery mate, I worked hard to do what I do. Why would I choose to work as a cashier when i earn what they do in a day in an hour? That would be daft. It does not mean I look down on people who do any kind of job, that is your invention, a way to make yourself feel superior. The same as the race thing which poisons your entire outlook. You think you are better than people based on where two of their grandparents were born? or more British? you are an insecure joke mate.
You want to claim that I am both a traitor to Britain for suggesting that there is nothing wrong with immigrant and homogenized communities living alongside each other and then at the same time claim I have no experience of helping immigrants to integrate or interacting with people of different ethnicies. You even claimed that me having an Asian step mother for 30+ years didn't count as knowing anything about Asians

Here you are lecturing me again for the hundredth time about how culture matters whilst living in South Korea. Lecturing me about how communities matter...from South Korea. You are now even joining El Kabong in suggesting that I am somehow self loathing for celebrating, documenting and even helping to preserve, archive, fund raise on behalf of British culture and British history and British Art and British Music and the indigenous languages of Britain and British Theatre ...from yes...you guessed it ..South Korea.

It is insane how you think your new religion of social conservatism means fuck all when you do not practice a word you preach.

I fucking love not only my country but all the communities and individuals that make it what it is. I don't need the permission of two opinionated twats on a forum to feel good about where I live that is why I live here. Stop slagging our country off. If you don't recognise it or respect it just like you have dissed Sweden and everywhere else you do not think follows your PERSONAL rules then fuck off and stay where you are. I am pretty sure neither country would miss anyone so negative and dismissive of it's achievements and living history.

The world does not stop just because you pair want to wrap everything in moth balls.

You are a pair of slipper wearing old farts.

You need to get out more.

[Kirkland Laing]

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https://www.ft.com/content/7453c686-...b-77216ebe1f17

Boris Johnson’s nightmare in Luxembourg was more than just a public embarrassment delivered at the hands of the Grand Duchy’s Xavier Bettel.

The FT on Wednesday morning reports on a chastening encounter over lunch between Mr Johnson, Michel Barnier and Jean-Claude Juncker, which one official described as a “penny dropping” moment for the prime minister over what it really means to replace the Irish backstop.

According to an account of the meeting, the prime minister was told by his EU counterparts in no uncertain terms that the UK’s plan to replace the backstop by allowing Northern Ireland to stick to common EU rules on food and livestock (known as SPS) was not enough to prevent customs checks on the vast majority of goods that cross the Irish border.

At that point, a befuddled Mr Johnson turned to David Frost, his chief negotiator, and Stephen Barclay, Brexit secretary, and said: “So you’re telling me the SPS plan doesn’t solve the customs problem?”
Luxembourg's Prime Minister Xavier Bettel gestures during a news conference after his meeting with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson in Luxembourg, September 16, 2019. REUTERS/Yves Herman

The exchange, according to one EU official, was part of an abrupt “learning curve” for Mr Johnson in his first face-to-face meeting with Mr Barnier and Mr Juncker since he took office.

Another official describes the prime minister gradually “slumping” in his chair as the reality of the UK’s negotiating position and the limited time left to strike an agreement dawned on him. “He wasn’t used to hearing it”, added the official.

Mr Juncker told his college of commissioners in Strasbourg on Tuesday that the Luxembourg lunch was the first time that “Boris Johnson understood the meaning of the single market”.

[Kirkland Laing]

Boris has no idea what he's doing. It's like Trump promising universal healthcare that will be much better than Obamacare and then when he actually has to come up with something saying who knew healthcare could be so complicated.