Should England ban private schools

[Gandalf]

A couple things...

Illegals aren't helping unions either comrade

TAXATION is the issue with illegals. Less owners, less property taxes, more people, more people who don't even speak English, more gangs, those things mean worse schools.

Illegal immigrants weren't hurting unions in the fifties either when five percent growth and the lowest unemployment rate in history encouraged huge numbers of them over the southern border. Illegal immigration has zero effect on unions Lyle. What does have an effect on unions is decades of Republican anti-union legislation backed up by anti-union conservative judges. The GOP even appoint union busting lawyers who've spent their career working for big business against unions as Secretary of Labor! As usual you're fed a load of bullshit about immigration and you swallow the whole thing. Meanwhile the judges Trump appoints and the people like Scalia he appoints further damage the ability of labour to command a decent share of the rapidly growing national income. And you vote for this.


https://nypost.com/2019/08/27/trump-...or-department/


Illegal immigrants all pay payroll taxes and a lot of them pay property taxes and other taxes. There's an easy way to make sure they all pay the taxes they're supposed to pay and that's have a system that allows enough immigration to allow the economy to grow correctly. But every attempt at immigration reform is blocked by the right who want an issue that can't be solved any other way left unsolved so they can have something to win votes with so they can keep electing judges and nominating cabinet members who make the top one percent richer.

That is a ridiculous statement.

You appear to be disconnected from the real world, Kirkland. There are many illegal immigrants out here and they stay under the radar by working for cash and it does indeed bring wages down. In fact even a lot of legal immigrants do just that to stay under the radar as they should not be doing extra jobs as it violates their visa. As do locals too as they are naughty. I can order chicken and pay a couple of quid less if I just pay cash.....why is that? If somebody illegal and unqualified is willing to work for half, you don't think some corrupt business owner will sometimes be tempted to take that bait?

[Gandalf]

Mass migration might well be a 'fact of life', but it is something people dislike and they know it hurts them. I also disagree with the notion that it is needed. There are jobs local people can and should be doing and I think national cohesiveness is more important than money. Also, at the end of the day MANY jobs are going to be vanishing in the next decade or so and few are going to be safe. Out here the government is begging banks to hire, but the reality is the banks don't need people and it will be the same in many industries, especially in factory work and work not involving genuine human interaction.

Work is being digitalized and thus people aren't needed. Just a few years ago everyone was filling up the car for you, now few do. All those people gone, somewhere else, but for how long? Those are not high skilled workers. They fill a car and process a card. They gave you the service economy, but the service then gets given to robots or you do it yourself. Immigration at the rate it is will be a problem rather than any kind of advantage. And lest we forget much of the immigration comes from beyond the EU and that actually costs the taxpayer a lot of money which is then money not provided to the local people who actually do deserve the investment as the jobs that are created will be technical ones. More welfare is good for nobody.

I think for instance what we see in the Brexit debate too is that the economic arguments all seem to come from the left who do not seem to understand that it is hard for ordinary people to compete against people who can come in and live 5 to a room and earn several times the minimum wage in their own countries. It would be like me going somewhere and just being able to earn 100 grand a year. It might be pennies to you Kirk, but to an ordinary person, it's significant. But then many of those jobs will go and many will naturalize, have children and let's not forget that with every industrial revolution comes the massive unemployment and when you have that plus a fractured society you have invited in something very unhealthy.

[Beanz]

Trump is a Globalist you prune. He has always been a Globalist. Personal gain for him comes way before serving his country and he has you defending him for doing so He has always raised money from investors all over the world, used illegal immigrants as workers, and like all good Globalists avoided paying taxes within his own country when possible. He thinks nothing of ignoring American borders, or the best interests of America and calling on foreign interests to come to his aid.He is part of a Global group of corrupt anti-patriotic populists who are each keeping each other where they are. Look at him helping out corrupt fuckers like Netty In Israel and boasting of wanting to build Trump hotels in North Korea. How easy it is to fool people in plain sight.

You sure do call me a lot of names... unprovoked now as well.

If you don't avoid paying taxes you're not a smart person. Avoiding taxes is LEGAL it's EVASION that's trouble.

How exactly am I "anti-patriotic"?

Also notice... I've called you 0 names in response.

Fuck me you a bed wetting baby.

Prune

That is now calling you names? (:

Trump
Trump
Trump is an anti-patriotic populist. Not you, although you support him just like Gandalf suuports the same anti-British populists here.

They are all Globalists. Look at you here in this thread trying to ensure that Britain becomes a model of America.

God it has become like Sesame Street here with you and Gandalf.

[Beanz]

Gandalf you are an economic migrant. You moved out of your country because you can do less hours for more money in another.Or maybe you could no longer hack it here. Yet you want to reserve that right for you. Like Boris you think you are a special case.

[Gandalf]

Not much of an argument, Ducky.

[El Kabong]

Fuck me you a bed wetting baby.

Prune

That is now calling you names? (:

Trump
Trump
Trump is an anti-patriotic populist. Not you, although you support him just like Gandalf suuports the same anti-British populists here.

They are all Globalists. Look at you here in this thread trying to ensure that Britain becomes a model of America.

God it has become like Sesame Street here with you and Gandalf.

Well I guess just keep at it then

Yes, that's a name which you called me and it's constant asperity from you towards me. I simply disagree with you, that's all, I disagree and you label me all the very worst things (none of which I actually am) you lie constantly about my insulting your family and wishing ill on them.....what do I do wrong? I ask you questions and I don't agree with you and that's enough for you to be constantly enraged at me which you then play coy about "Who me? Oh I'm not angry, I'm never angry. You couldn't possibly make me angry." ....I can't make you angry but I can with an astonishing amount of ease get you to call me a Nazi and a Fascist and anti-patriotic and anything else you want to baselessly accuse me of. Yeah, I've got to admit I'm growing short of patience with you and how you choose to respond to me, but I suppose if/when I choose to retaliate we'll be seeing those precious "Can't we have a truce? What about the new blood to the forum?" posts from you again.


Yes Trump is his name. How exactly is he anti-patriotic, it's a simple enough question which you've not bothered to answer, you've only taken the time to repeat the claim and add in Gandalf this time as well. To which I'd just add, how are THEY anti-patriotic? Will this see you respond accusing Walrus of being anti-Patriotic too or will you actually bother to answer the question.


So it's "Globalist" to back Brexit? It's "Globalist" to have a trade war with China? It's "Globalist" to want people of other nations to respect your borders? It's "Globalist" to back the 2nd Amendment? Those things TO ME don't seem very "Globalist" at all.

Britain is never going to be a "model of America" Britain has it's own history, it's own culture(s), and it's own destiny...all of that you'd rather see swallowed up whole by the European Union. You never discussed various leaders calling for an EU Armed Forces, you were asked about it for certain. But you are happy with crumbs the EU throws, "they're saving languages!" ....is English one of them?

Seasame Street eh? I'm just trying to have civil conversations...yes in the past I've been a firebrand of my own, I'm guilty of that, but it has been a while since I've gone out of my way to attempt to offend people. Prove them wrong? Yes. Be sarcastic? Yes. Press for answers to questions? Yes. But, I've stopped short recently especially with you of outright name calling, and provocations of that nature, because it doesn't do any good for anyone. It doesn't help make my point, it doesn't help you understand where I'm coming from, it doesn't make my posts more fun to read....so I've stopped or at the very least toned it way down. You certainly are under no obligation to respond in kind, but yes I will take note of when instead of attempting to actually make a point you just resort to name calling or threatening physical violence to me (yes, if we ever do meet in person, please "lamp me one" and we'll see how well that works out as well)...doesn't really seem like the kind of thing that someone who "isn't angry" would keep doing.

I'm sorry that your feelings have been hurt in the past and that you're still holding onto that. I still disagree with you on damn near everything and will continue to do so, but I don't wish ill on you or your family just because I disagree with you.

[Kirkland Laing]

Legal immigration up to 1965 was basically nil. Mass immigration over the southern border has been going on for over two centuries. Whether illegal immigrants or native born Americans were used as strike breakers back when the big agriculture firms were trying to stop Caesar Chavez getting decent pay and working conditions for agricultural workers doesn't make any difference.

The rest of your post is just rambling nonsense. Unsurprisingly you have no idea what you're on about. Some facts for your little shelf Lyle. It's not like there are a finite number of jobs and somebody coming over the border taking a job means one job less for a native born American. One extra body in the country means increased demand for accomodation, food, clothes, entertainment and all the other things people buy. Every working person adds more to economic growth than they subtract.

There are five million jobs destroyed every month in America. Five million people lose their job every month. There are 100 000 new entrants to the job market evey month, that's the balance bewtween people leaving school/college and retiring. The only way to create enough economic growth to produce five point one plus million jobs a month is to constantly increase the demand in the economy and the most effective way to do this in our modern economy is to let extra bodies in. Nothing anybody in Washington tries to do is ever going to alter that either. Mass immigration is a fact of life now.

Native born Americans pay taxes, they have skin in the game, they care about America...Illegal Immigrants don't pay taxes (unless they're also practicing identity fraud with bogus SSN's).

Finite or infinite the rules of supply and demand still apply as does the Pareto principle.

An illegal taking a job, might not mean 1 less job for an American but it DOES mean lower pay for those workers. Illegals aren't due a minimum wage, most often they are paid cash which is then wired right back to Mexico....some boon to OUR American economy that is

Mass immigration is globalist bullshit

Two days again. Jobs are not finite. Increased numbers mean increased demand which means increased income for everybody. It's just how that income is distributed. Right now all the money goes to the top. That's why wages are stagnant, not because of immigration.

[TitoFan]

Hadn't posted here yet, as the topic is none of my concern, but simply taken at face value...... why and for what reason should private schools be "banned"?? Shouldn't types of schooling be strictly a choice?

[Master]

Hadn't posted here yet, as the topic is none of my concern, but simply taken at face value...... why and for what reason should private schools be "banned"?? Shouldn't types of schooling be strictly a choice?

That is the crux of the debate parental choice to send their children to schools of their choice versus all schools should have the same high standards and thus allow equal social mobility for the most deprived of children.

[TitoFan]

Hadn't posted here yet, as the topic is none of my concern, but simply taken at face value...... why and for what reason should private schools be "banned"?? Shouldn't types of schooling be strictly a choice?

That is the crux of the debate parental choice to send their children to schools of their choice versus all schools should have the same high standards and thus allow equal social mobility for the most deprived of children.

Well put. I guess it depends on the state of public schooling in England. If the public school system is up to snuff and has the high standards necessary to properly educate the youth.... then I guess private schools would seem kind of superfluous and elitist. But BAN them?? Sounds like a far reach for a government. It's not like they're doing anything unlawful. But I get the argument. Again, it depends on the state of public education.

[Fatboxingfan]

The poor kid in Lambeth, Hackney, Westminster, Ettingshall, Fallings Park or Oxley lacking ✏️, ✏️ sharpener, notebook, laptop, Chromebook, and a nutrious good breakfast who wakes up with cockaroaches, mice running on the oven top, and no father isn't gonna get that fair shot at a job at Vodafone or HSBC or Barclays or Standard Charter or Goldman Sachs or GlaxoSmithKline.

[El Kabong]

Hadn't posted here yet, as the topic is none of my concern, but simply taken at face value...... why and for what reason should private schools be "banned"?? Shouldn't types of schooling be strictly a choice?

That is the crux of the debate parental choice to send their children to schools of their choice versus all schools should have the same high standards and thus allow equal social mobility for the most deprived of children.

Are scholarships not a thing? I know the whole "But what about the poor kids?" deal is an issue in regards to private schools, but in America there are scholarships. The ONLY thing that irks those against Private Schooling more is that the private schools that are cream of the crop aren't 100% scholarships. Which kind of begs the question "How then do you run the school?" the public schools take the tax money so that's out of the question. And they take the tax money(property taxes) even if your kid goes to private school or if you don't even have a kid sooooo there's that.

[Beanz]

Hadn't posted here yet, as the topic is none of my concern, but simply taken at face value...... why and for what reason should private schools be "banned"?? Shouldn't types of schooling be strictly a choice?

That is the crux of the debate parental choice to send their children to schools of their choice versus all schools should have the same high standards and thus allow equal social mobility for the most deprived of children.

Are scholarships not a thing? I know the whole "But what about the poor kids?" deal is an issue in regards to private schools, but in America there are scholarships. The ONLY thing that irks those against Private Schooling more is that the private schools that are cream of the crop aren't 100% scholarships. Which kind of begs the question "How then do you run the school?" the public schools take the tax money so that's out of the question. And they take the tax money(property taxes) even if your kid goes to private school or if you don't even have a kid sooooo there's that.

Stop pretending to speak for people you have absolutely nothing to do with, or pretending to have a handle on things of which you have no experience or knowledge. Private schools here often benefit from charitable status and tax privileges whilst running at a huge profit. Even public and state schools now have under a Tory Government started to be run like private businesses. The academies are then closed down and the land and playing fields sold off for development, netting huge profits for the directors who then fuck off. It is a terrible model from America we would do well to not ape. Feudal top down pyramid models with idiots at the apex of them. Look and Boris and the Don. Bullshit merchants selling over confidence in their own ignorance, like it is some kind of expertise, whilst having less common sense or actual knowledge of anything than the average bloke or woman.

It is exactly like you and Gandalf (and sometimes Walrus) you both know actually, close to fuck all, about nearly everything, and so have to cover that up with bluster and selling other people's conspiracy theories. You do so presumably because you think it gives you both the shine of sophistication . It doesn't, you can see the crassness and second hand nature of your arguments from miles away. The same as your bullshit man of the woods crap. I don't expect you have ever hunted for anything but your lost keys, but love the idea of pretending to be Grizzly Adams. You both try way too hard. Private schools are full of people like you that bully the scholarship kids for not being from the right class. They use terms like 'Your people' and finger wag like you do all day long. Anyone who has had to work with ex Private school toffs know how many of them are clueless and actually drag the company/team/endeavour down with their ideological identity politics and mistaking old fashioned ignorance for tradition or conservation.

[El Kabong]

Stop pretending to speak for people you have absolutely nothing to do with, or pretending to have a handle on things of which you have no experience or knowledge. Private schools here often benefit from charitable status and tax privileges whilst running at a huge profit. Even public and state schools now have under a Tory Government started to be run like private businesses. The academies are then closed down and the land and playing fields sold off for development, netting huge profits for the directors who then fuck off. It is a terrible model from America we would do well to not ape. Feudal top down pyramid models with idiots at the apex of them. Look and Boris and the Don. Bullshit merchants selling over confidence in their own ignorance, like it is some kind of expertise, whilst having less common sense or actual knowledge of anything than the average bloke or woman.

It is exactly like you and Gandalf (and sometimes Walrus) you both know actually, close to fuck all, about nearly everything, and so have to cover that up with bluster and selling other people's conspiracy theories. You do so presumably because you think it gives you both the shine of sophistication . It doesn't, you can see the crassness and second hand nature of your arguments from miles away. The same as your bullshit man of the woods crap. I don't expect you have ever hunted for anything but your lost keys, but love the idea of pretending to be Grizzly Adams. You both try way too hard. Private schools are full of people like you that bully the scholarship kids for not being from the right class. They use terms like 'Your people' and finger wag like you do all day long. Anyone who has had to work with ex Private school toffs know how many of them are clueless and actually drag the company/team/endeavour down with their ideological identity politics and mistaking old fashioned ignorance for tradition or conservation.

Gee that's odd, I don't remember asking you anything. Yet here you are and it's the same again personal insult after personal insult and yet again I'm not responding in kind, do you WANT me to respond in kind? I seem to recall you constantly preaching about how the forum would be so much better if we all stopped fighting, there will be new posters if we all stopped fighting, and why is everyone ganging up on me (you know, after I lump them all together and insult the lot of them)? I guess that is ancient history.

I asked @Master a question, I explained how things are in the States so HE, not you....allow me to emphasize this properly ***NOT YOU*** could compare and contrast how things work. And maybe Master and I could have a discussion on the pros and cons of public and private schooling....you know, like adults do. But apparently you'd rather that not happen and so you swoop in here to attack me (unprovoked, again) and again I'm not even responding in kind.


I can honestly tell you, due to the hostility that you respond to me with (from 0 insult or provocation on my part) I am not all that interested in discussing anything with you.


You may think of me what you will, it doesn't bother me at all. Think I'm some "trustafarian" think I've never hunted anything, think I went to a private school, think it all day long and twice on Sunday. You couldn't be further from the truth. I'm no "Toff"....but I'm ever so pleased that you're not the slightest bit angry with the things you've dreamed up about me in your own mind, that is really impressive

[Fatboxingfan]

Isn't that the same person who branded me a Brock 3 times? I saw two other people say that he Branded a Bilbo and Branded a Frodo. So this isn't a kind of game but he is serious?