Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

[Master]

Is that all you got?

I said 25 defences showed great consistency and an incredible feat but he got beaten up and knocked out before that.

When did I say Joe had to fight little babies in Frazier?

What are you going on about?

Throwing the rattle out of the pram.

[El Kabong]

Is that all you got?

I said 25 defences showed great consistency and an incredible feat but he got beaten up and knocked out before that.

When did I say Joe had to fight little babies in Frazier?

What are you going on about?

Throwing the rattle out of the pram.

Yes all I have is statistical fact of achieved accomplishment in real life vs your hypotheticals and your feelings and your emotions. Yes.


You go around in circles with "Joe Louis' era didn't have these fighters!" and my response is "Who did he duck?" you answer "No one, but his era didn't have these fighters" and so I'll say "What can be done about it? What could Joe do about it?" you'd respond "Nothing, I'm not asking for anything to be done, but his era didn't have these fighters".....what's the point of it?


What are YOU going on about?


I'd throw Ali to the fucking moon right now if I fucking could. It's unreasonable to talk to any Ali fan at all. "he's the greatest he's the GOAT he's the greatest"....HOW? WHY? ....well you see he ummm....


See how different that is to "How is Joe Louis the greatest?" oh, well he holds a record still to this day of 25 consecutive successful title defenses so there's that concrete undeniable fact. But hey you believe what you want to believe man

[Master]

Is that all you got?

I said 25 defences showed great consistency and an incredible feat but he got beaten up and knocked out before that.

When did I say Joe had to fight little babies in Frazier?

What are you going on about?

Throwing the rattle out of the pram.

Yes all I have is statistical fact of achieved accomplishment in real life vs your hypotheticals and your feelings and your emotions. Yes.


You go around in circles with "Joe Louis' era didn't have these fighters!" and my response is "Who did he duck?" you answer "No one, but his era didn't have these fighters" and so I'll say "What can be done about it? What could Joe do about it?" you'd respond "Nothing, I'm not asking for anything to be done, but his era didn't have these fighters".....what's the point of it?


What are YOU going on about?


I'd throw Ali to the fucking moon right now if I fucking could. It's unreasonable to talk to any Ali fan at all. "he's the greatest he's the GOAT he's the greatest"....HOW? WHY? ....well you see he ummm....


See how different that is to "How is Joe Louis the greatest?" oh, well he holds a record still to this day of 25 consecutive successful title defenses so there's that concrete undeniable fact. But hey you believe what you want to believe man

Stop trying to make me sound unreasonable.

I said name me a fighter that Joe Louis fought that would be in someone's top 10 list of heavyweight greats?

You gave me a list of fighters that were frankly just not up it.

[El Kabong]

Stop trying to make me sound unreasonable.

I said name me a fighter that Joe Louis fought that would be in someone's top 10 list of heavyweight greats?

You gave me a list of fighters that were frankly just not up it.

If you sound unreasonable it's because you are being unreasonable.

And I said "Who did he duck? Who was there for him to fight?" ....he beat them, he beat all of them, he beat some of them twice, everyone in his era. Yet you hold this "Yeah but he has no top 10 heavyweight greats in his record" alright then Master what are the qualifications needed to obtain Top 10 heavyweight greatness? I mean they're certainly not ambiguous feeling and emotionally driven opinions riiiiiight?

Now I want you to take notice, I never....I NEVER slate Ali based on who he didn't fight who wasn't around in his era. I NEVER do that. Ali could only fight who was in his era, which apparently you rate a great deal higher than any other era so I guess Ali was more LUCKY than good if what you're standing by what you're saying. Ali was more LUCKY to be in his era, where he could lose a few times and not have it impact his greatness, than say Joe Louis was in his era where he fought anyone and everyone but you didn't rate them so 25 in a row doesn't matter.

[Master]

Stop trying to make me sound unreasonable.

I said name me a fighter that Joe Louis fought that would be in someone's top 10 list of heavyweight greats?

You gave me a list of fighters that were frankly just not up it.

If you sound unreasonable it's because you are being unreasonable.

And I said "Who did he duck? Who was there for him to fight?" ....he beat them, he beat all of them, he beat some of them twice, everyone in his era. Yet you hold this "Yeah but he has no top 10 heavyweight greats in his record" alright then Master what are the qualifications needed to obtain Top 10 heavyweight greatness? I mean they're certainly not ambiguous feeling and emotionally driven opinions riiiiiight?

Now I want you to take notice, I never....I NEVER slate Ali based on who he didn't fight who wasn't around in his era. I NEVER do that. Ali could only fight who was in his era, which apparently you rate a great deal higher than any other era so I guess Ali was more LUCKY than good if what you're standing by what you're saying. Ali was more LUCKY to be in his era, where he could lose a few times and not have it impact his greatness, than say Joe Louis was in his era where he fought anyone and everyone but you didn't rate them so 25 in a row doesn't matter.

Joe Frazier lost still considered top 10, Big George got beat still considered great, Liston falls outside because he was unlucky to have Ali in his era.

Now you go.

[El Kabong]

Joe Frazier lost still considered top 10, Big George got beat still considered great, Liston falls outside because he was unlucky to have Ali in his era.

Now you go.

Now I go what?

You already admit your rating system is based on LUCK. Joe Louis holds a real record, like Tyson for youngest heavyweight champ that's a real record it's quantifiable your admiration for Ali while understandable isn't quantifiable. You can't say "Ali is the greatest because of _____" it's just "Ali is the greatest." and that's it there's no because of this because of that it just IS and for no definable reason. And that my friend is the crux of this debate.

25 up 25 down...a record.

[Master]

Joe Frazier lost still considered top 10, Big George got beat still considered great, Liston falls outside because he was unlucky to have Ali in his era.

Now you go.

Now I go what?

You already admit your rating system is based on LUCK. Joe Louis holds a real record, like Tyson for youngest heavyweight champ that's a real record it's quantifiable your admiration for Ali while understandable isn't quantifiable. You can't say "Ali is the greatest because of _____" it's just "Ali is the greatest." and that's it there's no because of this because of that it just IS and for no definable reason. And that my friend is the crux of this debate.

25 up 25 down...a record.

Again you are conveniently ignoring what I have written many many times.

Ali is the best because he beat what most people regard as 3 great heavyweights in his career. So it is not the crux of it.

Joe Louis, who did I mention got beat up and knocked out, went on a run of 25 defences and when I said name me someone on the list that would be regarded as a top 10 you talk about the depression and world war.

[Syntax Error]

Ali 1967 was the best we all saw of him, but it's probably safe to assume he could have even been better 1968 through to 1970 had he not been unjustly stripped & banned from fighting.

I have a hard time picking against Ali '67, but a good few would have given him fits.

Frazier always gives him trouble & Smokin' Joe was also in his pomp in 1969 & Joe had the one punch Ali hated, the monster Left hook.

Larry Holmes, Evander Holyfield & Tyson '86 - '88 also ask a lot of questions of him & probably give him his hardest fights.

Lennox Lewis & Wladimir also had the size & skillset to trouble him, but I think they are slower than him & would have found Ali too fast & elusive.

Would also have loved to see how prime Ali would have handled Ken Norton's awkard style because Ali just never solved Norton, although, to be fair, Muhammad was not in prime the three times he fought Norton.

[Fatboxingfan]

1967 Ali willth out speed Norton who plods along