Is it wrong to decry the decline of world leadership quality?

[TitoFan]

I was going to post this in The History Thread, but didn't want to change the narrative of that very good thread and decided to make a separate one.

Just finished watching the documentary "JFK: A President Betrayed".

Now, before anyone leaps in to shout about all the negative stuff regarding Kennedy, I'm fully aware of the guy's faults as POTUS. Of the 45 Presidents we've had over the course of history, I'm pretty sure we've had exactly ZERO who have been perfect.

JFK gets rightly criticized for things he did wrong, particularly during the early days of his presidency. But in the huge moments in the history of the U.S. and arguably the world, Kennedy I believe stepped up to the plate. It can be argued that few U.S. Presidents have stepped into office with so many critical issues hanging on the balance. Yet JFK, for all his rookie mistakes, was pretty much in the process of righting the ship when his presidency was abruptly ended in Nov 1963.

I watch Kennedy's speeches, as I've watched old speeches from past world leaders, and I can honestly say I truly decry the depths we've sunk to, and to which we've become accustomed to..... making it the new normal in the world. To hear Kennedy speak, or Eisenhower, or other world leaders of the time..... and then to hear Trump speak.... is almost like traveling to another planet and watching aliens speak.

Please spare me the "well, times have changed" spiel. Yeah, times have changed. Technology has changed our world. Communications have gone from landlines and letter, to smartphones and social media.

But human decency and the dignity of the highest office in the land. Has there been a need for that to change as well?

It's not just Trump, either. Seems like the unlikeliest personalities have been popping up as world leaders like so many mushrooms.

Toward the end of the documentary, Evan Thomas, a professor in Princeton University, sums things up nicely. Coming from him, it is valuable, since he was old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis and JFK's assassination.




Summing up, this isn't just another dig at Trump, whose election to the highest public office in the world is still mind-boggling to me. This is just an expression of sadness, much like Thomas said, about how far we've plunged down the cliff of human dignity and decency, to the point where we can elect just any Joe Shmoe to be President, or PM, or whatever...... and be satisfied and happy with it. Settling is such a downer.

Anyway, there's many sayings and quotes to pick from. But I'll just choose a couple for now.

[walrus]

Kennedy was very fascinating. I like that he was high on a cocktail of drugs while dealing with a situation that could have ended up in all out end of times war. Screwing Russian agents I mean the dude was incredible and the press actually covered for him. I have read there was a good chance that shit would get out if he ran for a second term but alas we will never know. We could probably go back and find many political or personal views of why each president who ever sat in office was the worst “at the time they were in office” it seems history is the proper judge as it’s difficult to filter out the bias for an sitting president. So no, I find nothing strange or bad going on, there is a reason why trump got elected, perhaps history will look at that someday

[TitoFan]

Kennedy was very fascinating. I like that he was high on a cocktail of drugs while dealing with a situation that could have ended up in all out end of times war. Screwing Russian agents I mean the dude was incredible and the press actually covered for him. I have read there was a good chance that shit would get out if he ran for a second term but alas we will never know. We could probably go back and find many political or personal views of why each president who ever sat in office was the worst “at the time they were in office” it seems history is the proper judge as it’s difficult to filter out the bias for an sitting president. So no, I find nothing strange or bad going on, there is a reason why trump got elected, perhaps history will look at that someday

I would've preferred JFK on that alleged cocktail of drugs than Trump, when faced with something as delicate and precarious as the Cuban Missile Crisis. But to each his own.

[walrus]

Kennedy was very fascinating. I like that he was high on a cocktail of drugs while dealing with a situation that could have ended up in all out end of times war. Screwing Russian agents I mean the dude was incredible and the press actually covered for him. I have read there was a good chance that shit would get out if he ran for a second term but alas we will never know. We could probably go back and find many political or personal views of why each president who ever sat in office was the worst “at the time they were in office” it seems history is the proper judge as it’s difficult to filter out the bias for an sitting president. So no, I find nothing strange or bad going on, there is a reason why trump got elected, perhaps history will look at that someday

I would've preferred JFK on that alleged cocktail of drugs than Trump, when faced with something as delicate and precarious as the Cuban Missile Crisis. But to each his own.

It’s documented the dude had horrible back pain and took painkillers. His back was really fucked it caused him to completely blow one of his meetings in Russia. The amphetamines I believe we’re for Addison's disease although I don’t recall of hand. I’m not knocking him for that, he had legitimate illness and it was prior to the time so much study was done on the effects of these drugs.

[TitoFan]

Kennedy was very fascinating. I like that he was high on a cocktail of drugs while dealing with a situation that could have ended up in all out end of times war. Screwing Russian agents I mean the dude was incredible and the press actually covered for him. I have read there was a good chance that shit would get out if he ran for a second term but alas we will never know. We could probably go back and find many political or personal views of why each president who ever sat in office was the worst “at the time they were in office” it seems history is the proper judge as it’s difficult to filter out the bias for an sitting president. So no, I find nothing strange or bad going on, there is a reason why trump got elected, perhaps history will look at that someday

I would've preferred JFK on that alleged cocktail of drugs than Trump, when faced with something as delicate and precarious as the Cuban Missile Crisis. But to each his own.

It’s documented the dude had horrible back pain and took painkillers. His back was really fucked it caused him to completely blow one of his meetings in Russia. The amphetamines I believe we’re for Addison's disease although I don’t recall of hand. I’m not knocking him for that, he had legitimate illness and it was prior to the time so much study was done on the effects of these drugs.

Yes he did have terrible, well documented back pains. Reportedly caused by a football injury back in college, and worsened by his boat-related incident during the war. When you think about it, it's admirable he did what he did, as the back problems were severe and JFK had had spinal surgeries and also been hospitalized for intestinal ailments. Back then, medicine wasn't what it is today, so it must have been excruciating for him to perform his duties as President and deal with the mega scrutiny he had to endure during those short years. I can't think of too many "dime-a-dozen" politicians today that would be able to perform up to that level under those circumstance.

[El Kabong]

Want to know the REAL trouble....JFK was a Democrat back then. Today where would someone with his views fit?

[walrus]

Want to know the REAL trouble....JFK was a Democrat back then. Today where would someone with his views fit?

Definitely. He was a bit conservative with taxes, got rid of the 90% rate, strong on military, literally thinking of launching the bomb figuring we would lose 30% or so of the US but wipe out Russia

[TitoFan]

Want to know the REAL trouble....JFK was a Democrat back then. Today where would someone with his views fit?

Definitely. He was a bit conservative with taxes, got rid of the 90% rate, strong on military, literally thinking of launching the bomb figuring we would lose 30% or so of the US but wipe out Russia

Precisely what he DIDN'T do though did he.

Regardless of the unbearable pressures being put on him by the hawkish U.S. military leaders of the time.

But go ahead and put him down, if it helps prop up the human trash bin that inhabits the White House today.

[Fatboxingfan]

well the word wrong really is a subjective call and you are talking about morals and people's standards which vary according to the individual. So there's nothing wrong per se with decrying etc

and remember it's not just world leadership it is humanity in general that is declining and because the world leaders are chosen from the pool of humanity they will be reflecting that same phenomenon

also these days with technology everywhere and information coming at us from all sides 24/7 it is more understandable that people are on a hair trigger with fighting back and retaliating because if something goes viral these days even if it's wrong or fake it can completely destroy you so people are more on a hair trigger and people are much more overly defensive because the stakes are a lot higher

If there's anything wrong about it I can't think of it to answer your question

[Fatboxingfan]

but the exact same thing can be said of music as well when you go back and watch a music video of Jimi Hendrix and then you watch a music video from 2019 it also feels like you have been transported back to a different world where everything was a very much higher character and quality

[El Kabong]

Want to know the REAL trouble....JFK was a Democrat back then. Today where would someone with his views fit?

Definitely. He was a bit conservative with taxes, got rid of the 90% rate, strong on military, literally thinking of launching the bomb figuring we would lose 30% or so of the US but wipe out Russia

Precisely what he DIDN'T do though did he.

Regardless of the unbearable pressures being put on him by the hawkish U.S. military leaders of the time.

But go ahead and put him down, if it helps prop up the human trash bin that inhabits the White House today.

Quite true. Now look at Trump, sure he's talked of bombing places and what not, but what has he DONE? Peace in Korea...who expected that? Working to bring the "endless wars" to a close, allowing our troops to demolish ISIS so that our service members can come home.

Think of the pressures on Trump regarding Syria. People calling him a Russian asset for NOT getting stuck in over there....yet he quite bravely kept us out of that hornets nest despite the peer pressure.


Sure he is a bit large at times....he's Donald Fucking Trump, he's been that way his whole life. Lots of characters were larger than life, JFK and Marilyn anyone? Reagan and "the bombing begins in 5 minutes"? Churchill and when the lady said she'd poison him he responded "if you were my wife I'd drink it" ...... have a bit of a laugh.

[Beanz]

Bravely? (:

[El Kabong]

Bravely? (:

Yes actually.

[Gandalf]

Probably wrong. In the words of Byrne 'Same as it ever was'. From Kennedy, to Nixon, to Clinton, to Bush and beyond.

Kennedy was a junky sermingly with a chronic sex addiction. Charming on the surface, but pretty messed up.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/jfk-...de-pornography

[TitoFan]

well the word wrong really is a subjective call and you are talking about morals and people's standards which vary according to the individual. So there's nothing wrong per se with decrying etc

and remember it's not just world leadership it is humanity in general that is declining and because the world leaders are chosen from the pool of humanity they will be reflecting that same phenomenon

also these days with technology everywhere and information coming at us from all sides 24/7 it is more understandable that people are on a hair trigger with fighting back and retaliating because if something goes viral these days even if it's wrong or fake it can completely destroy you so people are more on a hair trigger and people are much more overly defensive because the stakes are a lot higher

If there's anything wrong about it I can't think of it to answer your question

This is something nobody would outwardly agree to... but worth some consideration. The information overload problem coupled with the social media explosion... yeah... it should probably be thrown into the equation also.

Feels somehow dirty to think that "humanity in general is declining", as you say. But the truth is that people with an ironclad word and honor seem more rare nowadays than the dodo.

I still balk at the idea that we have to SETTLE (caps on purpose) for whatever we drag from the bottom of the barrel, but what the hell...........