Post your top ten heavyweights

[ykdadamaja]

just wondering how many of these top ten fighters are still undefeated apart from Tyson

There's at least 10 good, undefeated heavyweights coming up.

The best of them from what I've seen are Hrgovic and Dubois.

Joyce, Romanov, Sanchez, Milas and Yoka are some of the others.

I got my eyes on Tony Yoka. That man stepped up beating Dave allen and Dimitrenko in just 5 pro fights.

Yoka is a pampered Frenchman that is being fluffed to be a media darling like Anthony Joshua was coming out of the Olympics. I am waiting for him to be exposed.

[TIC]

just wondering how many of these top ten fighters are still undefeated apart from Tyson

There's at least 10 good, undefeated heavyweights coming up.

The best of them from what I've seen are Hrgovic and Dubois.

Joyce, Romanov, Sanchez, Milas and Yoka are some of the others.

I got my eyes on Tony Yoka. That man stepped up beating Dave allen and Dimitrenko in just 5 pro fights.

Yoka is a pampered Frenchman that is being fluffed to be a media darling like Anthony Joshua was coming out of the Olympics. I am waiting for him to be exposed.

yoka did step up quickly, but he has the missed tests hanging over his head, leaves a question mark

[Fenster]

Not putting in Ortiz into your lists is ridiculous. Especially when someone like Povetkin is in there along with up and comers who haven’t been tested at all.

Povetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.

Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.

Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.

[Fenster]

1. Fury
2. AJ
3. Whyte
4. Wilder
5. Ruiz
6. Povetkin
7. Hunter
8. Parker
9. Ortiz
10. Rivas

[powerpuncher]

Not putting in Ortiz into your lists is ridiculous. Especially when someone like Povetkin is in there along with up and comers who haven’t been tested at all.

Povetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.

Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.

Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.

This about now and not their career.Povetkin hasn’t really beaten anyone of note for years and hasn’t looked either

[Fenster]

Not putting in Ortiz into your lists is ridiculous. Especially when someone like Povetkin is in there along with up and comers who haven’t been tested at all.

Povetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.

Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.

Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.

This about now and not their career.Povetkin hasn’t really beaten anyone of note for years and hasn’t looked either

Ortiz has never beat anyone of note. That's the point. Hunter is better than anyone Ortiz has faced (barring Wilder, of course). Ortiz lofty status is a bigger smoke and mirrors job than Wilder's 40-0 KO's.

[TitoFan]

Not putting in Ortiz into your lists is ridiculous. Especially when someone like Povetkin is in there along with up and comers who haven’t been tested at all.

Povetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.

Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.

Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.

This about now and not their career.Povetkin hasn’t really beaten anyone of note for years and hasn’t looked either

Ortiz has never beat anyone of note. That's the point. Hunter is better than anyone Ortiz has faced (barring Wilder, of course). Ortiz lofty status is a bigger smoke and mirrors job than Wilder's 40-0 KO's.

Comparing resumes has always been subjective. I'd agree that Povetkin's resume is better than Ortiz's, but not by the huge stretch you imply. Two things though...

Ortiz's resume would've had more big names had he not been pretty much avoided during his prime. Again somewhat subjective, but the generally accepted truth. He's always been viewed as a high-risk, low-reward opponent.

Second... why the lofty status for Hunter? Frankly, if you're going to lift up Hunter while downgrading Jennings (an Ortiz opponent), I'm pretty sure the opposite case could be made.

In fact, if we're comparing resumes, Jennings runs rings around Hunter. Why you have Hunter as your own #7 is puzzling to say the least.

[powerpuncher]

Not putting in Ortiz into your lists is ridiculous. Especially when someone like Povetkin is in there along with up and comers who haven’t been tested at all.

Povetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.

Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.

Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.

This about now and not their career.Povetkin hasn’t really beaten anyone of note for years and hasn’t looked either

Ortiz has never beat anyone of note. That's the point. Hunter is better than anyone Ortiz has faced (barring Wilder, of course). Ortiz lofty status is a bigger smoke and mirrors job than Wilder's 40-0 KO's.

Let’s go back 5 years and compare. I’ll be honest though, the HW division is not good so it’s hard for most anyone to have a good resume in that division.

The names of note that Ortiz has beaten I would say are Jennings, Thompson, Scott, Kaufman, Hammer. Again, I realize that this isn’t saying much. These fighters overall aren’t that good. Jennings is probably his best win since he had just given Wlad some trouble in their previous fight.

Povetkin has beaten since then Perez, Wach, Duahapas, Price, Hammer, and Fury (Hughie obviously). Again, not really great competition. I think that Perez is probably the best win out of those.

I would say it’s pretty even on resume on who they have beaten. Both lost to the top fighters in the division while Povetkin had a draw with Hunter who I don’t necessarily rate that highly. I think that Ortiz has also much more easily beaten his competition too. Even with Wilder, he was winning both fights until the knockout.

With all of that said, ratings usually qualify within the last fight or two or maybe even a year or two. If you look at the last few fights, Ortiz would seem to have the upper hand. Povetkin has shown that he can get outboxed. Ortiz hasn’t shown that. He has shown that he could get knocked out which Povetkin has also shown.

My main point at the beginning though was that pushing Ortiz out of the top 10 Because of two losses to Wilder seems ridiculous since he has proven to be a good boxer and has at least proven himself to be able to beat some of the upper echelon of HWs while other up and coming fighters have not.

[Alpha]

Not putting in Ortiz into your lists is ridiculous. Especially when someone like Povetkin is in there along with up and comers who haven’t been tested at all.

Povetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.

Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.

Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.

This about now and not their career.Povetkin hasn’t really beaten anyone of note for years and hasn’t looked either

Ortiz has never beat anyone of note. That's the point. Hunter is better than anyone Ortiz has faced (barring Wilder, of course). Ortiz lofty status is a bigger smoke and mirrors job than Wilder's 40-0 KO's.

Comparing resumes has always been subjective. I'd agree that Povetkin's resume is better than Ortiz's, but not by the huge stretch you imply. Two things though...

Ortiz's resume would've had more big names had he not been pretty much avoided during his prime. Again somewhat subjective, but the generally accepted truth. He's always been viewed as a high-risk, low-reward opponent.

Second... why the lofty status for Hunter? Frankly, if you're going to lift up Hunter while downgrading Jennings (an Ortiz opponent), I'm pretty sure the opposite case could be made.

In fact, if we're comparing resumes, Jennings runs rings around Hunter. Why you have Hunter as your own #7 is puzzling to say the least.

I thought Hunter beat Povetkin. Add in Kiladze, Bakole, Ustinov and Kuzmin and it's not a bad run so far since moving up from Cruiser.

[Fenster]

Hunter's draw with Povetkin is stronger form than anything Ortiz has done. He's in his prime, just held his own with a former "champ" and perennial top 10 heavyweight and gave Uysk (P4Per) his most competitive fight to date (IMO).

Ortiz best win - Jennings - has just been schooled by a prospect and prior to that ironed out by Rivas (10th). Ortiz fought him on the back of a loss. Ortiz best recent victory is over Hammer (a man Povetkin beat with ease who wouldn't rank in his top ten best wins). So whether we use recent form or backdated stuff Povetkin trumps Ortiz at every turn... unless, of course, we are crediting Ortiz for being Wilder's claim to fame (which is obvious).

So lets play that game.

Ortiz - best fighter faced = Wilder
Povetkin - best fighter faced = Wlad/AJ
Hunter - best fighter faced = Uysk (Povetkin at heavy)
Jennings - best fighter faced = Wlad

You see? We have a pattern forming here where Ortiz and Wilder are isolated whilst the others have all competed against first ballot HOF-ers and genuine champs.

My argument isn't about "what could have been" or "should have been" it's purely about "what has happened." Fact. And guess what? If you disagree with my reasoning that's cool and the gang.

[TitoFan]

And yet Jennings had just given Wlad a credible challenge the fight before Ortiz. So it's hardly fair to compare that Jennings to the one who has obviously faded and is on his way out, isn't it.

Not to mention that Jennings was the one who handed Perez his first loss. The very same Perez you tout as one of Povetkin's best wins.

The Povetkin win over Byrd was good, no doubt about that. But let's not forget that Byrd was two fights away from the end of his career and he was never truly a legitimate HW no matter how much some fans may have wished him to be. So you had a young, hungry prospect beating an old, overblown cruiser masquerading as a HW, while outweighing him by nearly 20 pounds and almost 10 years age difference.

Byrd is just a name on Povetkin's resume.

Again... I'm not arguing that Povetkin's resume isn't better than Ortiz's. Only that it's not the wide chasm you're making it out to be.

But like you said.... we can obviously disagree.

[Fenster]

Perez was "robbed" against Jennings... knocked unconscious in a round by Povetkin. The manner of victory is a factor in the way we rate careers, right?

I haven't compared the "faded" Jennings with the "non faded" version. You have that impression because - @TitoFan - you've butted into a discussion I was having with Powerpuncher, who is arguing Ortiz current form is superior to Povetkin's. You are bringing up points that strengthen my argument whilst weakening his. I was disproving your claim that Jennings should be above Hunter.

I'm happy to debate any opinions but it needs to be kept in context because I have no interest in tantrums and tiaras.

[powerpuncher]

Hunter's draw with Povetkin is stronger form than anything Ortiz has done. He's in his prime, just held his own with a former "champ" and perennial top 10 heavyweight and gave Uysk (P4Per) his most competitive fight to date (IMO).

Ortiz best win - Jennings - has just been schooled by a prospect and prior to that ironed out by Rivas (10th). Ortiz fought him on the back of a loss. Ortiz best recent victory is over Hammer (a man Povetkin beat with ease who wouldn't rank in his top ten best wins). So whether we use recent form or backdated stuff Povetkin trumps Ortiz at every turn... unless, of course, we are crediting Ortiz for being Wilder's claim to fame (which is obvious).

So lets play that game.

Ortiz - best fighter faced = Wilder
Povetkin - best fighter faced = Wlad/AJ
Hunter - best fighter faced = Uysk (Povetkin at heavy)
Jennings - best fighter faced = Wlad

You see? We have a pattern forming here where Ortiz and Wilder are isolated whilst the others have all competed against first ballot HOF-ers and genuine champs.

My argument isn't about "what could have been" or "should have been" it's purely about "what has happened." Fact. And guess what? If you disagree with my reasoning that's cool and the gang.

It doesn’t matter so much “who” they faced if they lost. To an extent it does, but as I mentioned before, Ortiz’ only losses were against a top HW who he was beating before getting knocked out both times. Povetkin got schooled by AJ. It wasn’t close. And Hunter still easily got beat by Usyk. It’s not like he gave him a competitive fight. So again, we need to look at their wins.

Ortiz has basically easily outboxed anyone he has faced (including in his losses). It’s not like Povetkin or Hunter looked that impressive against each other. Hunter is still an unknown at HW while Povetkin has seen better days. Ortiz maybe too, but nobody has proven to make him look bad yet. The same can’t be said for Povetkin.

[TitoFan]

Perez was "robbed" against Jennings... knocked unconscious in a round by Povetkin. The manner of victory is a factor in the way we rate careers, right?

I haven't compared the "faded" Jennings with the "non faded" version. You have that impression because - @TitoFan - you've butted (Nobody "butted" into anything. Last I checked this was an open forum where we're all free to enter into any discussion. Particularly about boxing. But then again as a Mod, I'm sure you're aware of that. Feel free to tell me if the rules have changed.) into a discussion I was having with Powerpuncher, who is arguing Ortiz current form is superior to Povetkin's. You are bringing up points that strengthen my argument whilst weakening his. I was disproving your claim that Jennings should be above Hunter.

I'm happy to debate any opinions but it needs to be kept in context because I have no interest in tantrums and tiaras.

Nor do I.

In fact, I have no interest in continuing our dialogue period.

[TIC]

fenster is right, ortiz hasn't done shit