Post your top ten heavyweights

[Alpha]

Nobody here disagrees that Povetkin's resume is superior to Ortiz's. But my question to you would be comparing Michael Hunter's resume versus Bryant Jennings, the former an opponent of Povetkin's and the latter an opponent of Ortiz. Jennings may be washed up and on his way out now, but when he fought Ortiz he was just off a UD loss to Wlad and a decision win over Mike Perez just before that. He entered the Wlad fight as the #2, 3, and 4 ranked (WBA, WBO, and IBF respectively) ranked heavyweight in the world. Hunter by contrast, had done absolute jack at heavy before his split decision draw vs Povetkin. Which is why I don't see using Jennings, Hunter, or Perez for that matter to advance arguments about Povetkin's resume vs Ortiz. Not even Byrd, who was just a washed up shell of himself when he faced the young, hungry Povetkin. What's your take on this................. Freedom?

- Hunter did not fight a prime Povetkin, Sasha is 40 and Hunter is in his prime at 30. Povetkin of say 2007 to 2015 would have easily beaten Hunter. Bryd was faded in 2007, true, but so is Povetkin now. By the way, Povetkin deserved to win against Hunter, remember there was a knockdown of Hunter that the ref ignored.

- Chambers was young and very fast when Povetkin beat him in 2008 (see Chambers vs an undefeated and better version of Dimitrenko). Povetkin's wins over Chagaev and Perez were impressive. Wawrzyk was never any good despite the undefeated record, but Takam was six years younger and a strong, capable heavyweight (maybe deserved at least a draw against Parker) around the time he fought Povetkin.

- Povetkin's amateur record is much better than Ortiz's. In the world championships in 2003, Povetkin beat a better Cuban than Ortiz, who was not even one of the top two Cuban heavyweights of his time.

- I remember watching Jennings vs. Klitschko and thinking Wlad is finally fading with age, his movements are slower and not as fluid at age 38 as they were when he was younger. I remember posting that prime Wlad vs. Jennings would have been a lot like 2006 Wlad vs. Brock or 2000 Wlad vs. Barrett.

- How many world titleholders has Ortiz fought? One, who twice knocked him out. How many has Povetkin fought? Four, his record is 2-2 and he was only stopped once, when he was age 38 and in against a better heavyweight than Wilder.

Nobody is debating who has fought the better competition throughout their careers. The question is as of right now.

Exactly, Povetkin has the better overall record but we are talking current ranking. I think going back 5 years is more than generous.

Nobody is debating who has fought the better competition throughout their careers. The question is as of right now.

Povetkin's "draw" (should have been a win) against Hunter is much better than Ortiz being KOed by Wilder.

Ortiz faded in the mid-rounds against Wilder, while Povetkin came on in the late rounds against Hunter, who looked like a beaten man the last couple of rounds.

I'd sooner see Povetkin vs. Ortiz (old vs. old, a fair fight) than prime Whyte against old Povetkin. I'm quite sure Povetkin would win by KO in rounds 7 to 12.

Hunter/ Povetkin was a close fight but I had Hunter winning, sure there should have been a knockdown in the 5th but it wasn't ruled. Hunter won the 11th and took the 12th off. I had it 7-5 Hunter I think, so I disagree that the "draw" should have been a win for Povetkin. Losing to a higher ranked fighter is not as bad as drawing or losing to a lower ranked guy in my eyes. Ortiz lost to Wilder, who I'm sure you had rated ahead of Hunter. Did you have Hunter ranked going into the Povetkin fight?

[Memphis]

For what it's worth I think Ortiz is still top ten easily. He's a skilled fighter.

The whole bogeyman thing is bit of a myth though isn't it? It was sort of born on the back of the Jennings win I think which was a good performance at the time but enough to instate someone as some sort of champion elect being swerved by every man and his dog?

Obviously he frightened the life out of Eddie Hearn who decided it was best to have Ortiz firmly in his back pocket to avoid having him undoubtedly knocking seven shades out of Joshua at the time. Far better to have Ortiz labour past Dave Allen......DAVE ALLEN!! Dave Allen of course who coming off a 'World class' win over Lucas Browne which bizarrely, allegedly put him within touching distance of a crack at a World title of sorts got completely outclassed and beaten to a pulp by David price.

Not to gloss over the good work he did with Wilder. He won the majority of the rounds they boxed. Is winning rounds against Wilder such a mean feat though? Do you have to be the cream of the crop to accomplish that?

[TitoFan]

For what it's worth I think Ortiz is still top ten easily. He's a skilled fighter.

The whole bogeyman thing is bit of a myth though isn't it? It was sort of born on the back of the Jennings win I think which was a good performance at the time but enough to instate someone as some sort of champion elect being swerved by every man and his dog?

Obviously he frightened the life out of Eddie Hearn who decided it was best to have Ortiz firmly in his back pocket to avoid having him undoubtedly knocking seven shades out of Joshua at the time. Far better to have Ortiz labour past Dave Allen......DAVE ALLEN!! Dave Allen of course who coming off a 'World class' win over Lucas Browne which bizarrely, allegedly put him within touching distance of a crack at a World title of sorts got completely outclassed and beaten to a pulp by David price.

Not to gloss over the good work he did with Wilder. He won the majority of the rounds they boxed. Is winning rounds against Wilder such a mean feat though? Do you have to be the cream of the crop to accomplish that?

Actually, it might be. People think just because Wilder is "boxing-challenged" that it doesn't take much to hang in there and win rounds against the man. Fury had the advantage of size, wile, and obvious boxing ability to beat Wilder. Very few other current heavyweights have all those tools in enough measure to do what Fury did. Ortiz was in fact winning his fights against Wilder. And not by running and staying away, but by boxing aggressively. So on balance I'd say yeah.... it might still be a pretty mean feat to win rounds against Wilder.

[Memphis]

I was thinking more guys like Molina, Szpilka, Duhaupas and Washington. All had no issue picking up rounds. Maybe not so much Washington. Wilder knew he was going to get him. The others though, they gave him some tough spots.

[TitoFan]

I was thinking more guys like Molina, Szpilka, Duhaupas and Washington. All had no issue picking up rounds. Maybe not so much Washington. Wilder knew he was going to get him. The others though, they gave him some tough spots.

Not disagreeing, but with the 4 guys you mentioned, one had the sense that the hammer would fall at some point. In fact probably the opponents themselves had that in the back of their minds. With Ortiz though, he was busy trying to get his own hammer to fall. And in the process won many of the rounds. So although Ortiz was twice the TKO victim, I thought he stood out from the others.

[Memphis]

I was thinking more guys like Molina, Szpilka, Duhaupas and Washington. All had no issue picking up rounds. Maybe not so much Washington. Wilder knew he was going to get him. The others though, they gave him some tough spots.

Not disagreeing, but with the 4 guys you mentioned, one had the sense that the hammer would fall at some point. In fact probably the opponents themselves had that in the back of their minds. With Ortiz though, he was busy trying to get his own hammer to fall. And in the process won many of the rounds. So although Ortiz was twice the TKO victim, I thought he stood out from the others.

Yep I'd go along with that. Those guys had their moments, Duhaupas I think bashed Wilders eye up pretty good and gave him a decent argument but there was never that pre-fight danger there was with Ortiz.

[Alpha]

One thing I did disagree with Fenster on was that Perez was 'robbed' against Jennings. It was a close fight, I had Jennings by a point, even scoring the last round 9-9.

I put quote marks around "robbed" to indicate it has been claimed he was robbed. It's a fight he could have got the nod. Just like you and Freedom believe the opposite about Povetkin-Hunter. Either way I accept the decisions in both fights - they were close which could have gone either way.

I agree that both fights had enough close rounds that they could have gone either way.

For what it's worth I think Ortiz is still top ten easily. He's a skilled fighter.

The whole bogeyman thing is bit of a myth though isn't it? It was sort of born on the back of the Jennings win I think which was a good performance at the time but enough to instate someone as some sort of champion elect being swerved by every man and his dog?

Obviously he frightened the life out of Eddie Hearn who decided it was best to have Ortiz firmly in his back pocket to avoid having him undoubtedly knocking seven shades out of Joshua at the time. Far better to have Ortiz labour past Dave Allen......DAVE ALLEN!! Dave Allen of course who coming off a 'World class' win over Lucas Browne which bizarrely, allegedly put him within touching distance of a crack at a World title of sorts got completely outclassed and beaten to a pulp by David price.

Not to gloss over the good work he did with Wilder. He won the majority of the rounds they boxed. Is winning rounds against Wilder such a mean feat though? Do you have to be the cream of the crop to accomplish that?

Actually, it might be. People think just because Wilder is "boxing-challenged" that it doesn't take much to hang in there and win rounds against the man. Fury had the advantage of size, wile, and obvious boxing ability to beat Wilder. Very few other current heavyweights have all those tools in enough measure to do what Fury did. Ortiz was in fact winning his fights against Wilder. And not by running and staying away, but by boxing aggressively. So on balance I'd say yeah.... it might still be a pretty mean feat to win rounds against Wilder.

I don't think winning rounds against Wilder is such a mean feat. Ortiz did have Wilder on queer street tho and without the extra time he might have pulled off the win.