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Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?
B Hop still did amazing things after he got beat by Joe Calzaghe so that victory is a good one. Also remember these last 2 fights of his career were at light heavyweight not his best weight.
Beating 2 undefeated young champions and then 2 legends in USA is a nice way to finish off your career. Carl Froch would kill for something like that.
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Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?
Ignoring the fact Calzaghe was from the same era/age group as Roy and Hopkins, to claim they were geriatric shadows is complete and utter revisionist rubbish. Nard's best wins came either side of his Calzaghe loss and Roy, although evidently past his best, wasn't the "shot" dinosaur everyone now makes out.
Young Hopkins (middleweight) vs young Calzaghe is a totally different fight. Either way, neither is leaving the other for dead. And prime Roy never fought anyone like Calzaghe and didn't always wipe the floor with everyone. And I don't care what anyone says - Calzaghe's final performance against Roy was awesome.
The same people who slag off Calzaghe's record boast about Bhop's middleweight defences. Nothing but American bias/nationalism. The other former champs and top ten Ring contenders Calzaghe defeated don't exist. Why? Calzaghe's career started with Lacy for the vast majority of Americans and salty Brits.
Last edited by Fenster; 05-14-2020 at 01:26 PM.
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Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?
Originally Posted by Fenster
Solid post, and let me be the first to say here: I detest to the back teeth American bias/nationalism, in sports, in politics, in military. Detest I say.
Geriatric shadows that made me laugh, I don't know if you coined it that, but its a good one. No I wouldn't say they were that far gone, but a prime RJJ would dominate Joe, maybe not leave for dead as you say (hell Primo just scolded me for using the same term "dead" "kill" whatever when saying that Bivol may "kill" Callum, jeez @Primo Carnera it was figurative FFS) but he would shellack him.
Now BHop yes had great nights before and after so yeah, good point there as well. In the end, Joe Calzaghe was an exceptional fighter, undefeated, amazing hand speed and combos, and got up off the canvass to come back and win. The question really is: could he have fought better comp? Was that better comp even out there and available at the time? If not, then its all he could be expected to do.
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Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?
joe would have beat carl. joe & sven should have fought
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Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?
The fact that Sven Ottke was regarded higher than Joe at one point when he started unifying the titles does show that Joe was "coasting" with his WBO title and content having mandatory defences.
Joe was good enough to beat Ottke but never took that fight. That is a stain on his record but he is still good enough to beat Froch.
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Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?
I bought all that shit from Frank Warren back in the day - Ottke "ducking" Joe, terrified of leaving Germany, he's boring, he prices himself out, etc. But truth is, yes, Ottke unified, was a much bigger draw in Germany than Joe was in Britain and was rightly rated above him considering Calzaghe feasted on his leftovers (Joe beat them better but still, Ottke had already beat them).The fact that Sven Ottke was regarded higher than Joe at one point when he started unifying the titles does show that Joe was "coasting" with his WBO title and content having mandatory defences.
Joe was good enough to beat Ottke but never took that fight. That is a stain on his record but he is still good enough to beat Froch.
Imagine Calzaghe in this modern era with a modern promoter (that includes Bob and Al), multi TV deals, social media and multi platforms? It's almost laughable Froch, DeGale, Groves, Bellew etc became global "stars" whilst Calzaghe, a genuine all-time great, spent most his prime fannying about with "cab drivers."
Last edited by Fenster; 05-15-2020 at 01:11 PM.
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Re: Is it Frotch or Frock?
I actually agree that Calzaghe should have a much more stable legacy. His legacy is so weird because he was undefeated and beat good fighters, but even during his career, he was just never a huge name.I bought all that shit from Frank Warren back in the day - Ottke "ducking" Joe, terrified of leaving Germany, he's boring, he prices himself out, etc. But truth is, yes, Ottke unified, was a much bigger draw in Germany than Joe was in Britain and was rightly rated above him considering Calzaghe feasted on his leftovers (Joe beat them better but still, Ottke had already beat them).The fact that Sven Ottke was regarded higher than Joe at one point when he started unifying the titles does show that Joe was "coasting" with his WBO title and content having mandatory defences.
Joe was good enough to beat Ottke but never took that fight. That is a stain on his record but he is still good enough to beat Froch.
Imagine Calzaghe in this modern era with a modern promoter (that includes Bob and Al), multi TV deals, social media and multi platforms? It's almost laughable Froch, DeGale, Groves, Bellew etc became global "stars" whilst Calzaghe, a genuine all-time great, spent most his prime fannying about with "cab drivers."
Because of that, his legacy is all over the place depending on who you talk to. It’s unfortunate.
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