Today In Biden Land

[Kirkland Laing]

omg not one of them has a mask or is social distancing

Two groups of pig ignorant bearded religious conservatives. They probably all think that dying from a virus is god's will. These idiots are not people you should be taking cues from on avoiding becoming infected.

[Kirkland Laing]

Anybody wanting to know what kind of economic situation the Taliban are facing and the main reason they're being so considerate with the west in Kabul right now:

https://fullstackeconomics.com/afgha...shock-taliban/



There's at least one honest/undeluded senior military guy:

https://twitter.com/mviser/status/1429453432134508547


by comparison:



https://twitter.com/JustinTLogan/sta...03463572135937



The question that subsequent investigations should be asking but wont:



https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/sta...76135767793664

[TIC]

omg not one of them has a mask or is social distancing

Two groups of pig ignorant bearded religious conservatives. They probably all think that dying from a virus is god's will. These idiots are not people you should be taking cues from on avoiding becoming infected.

i was mentioning something that you missed cause it doesn't fit your belief. you have already admitted that what someone else says is good enough for you. that's a belief. not knowing

[TitoFan]

Yeah... back to the topic at hand.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/22/10301...tan-evacuation

"Biden Touts 'Incredible' Evacuation Operation From Kabul, But Warns Of Ongoing Danger"



Sorry... I don't buy the "touting." Too bad all pro-Trump fans have evacuated this forum... because right now I'd be agreeing with them about just how badly this administration screwed this up.

Hostile Country Evacuation 101 -

First you systematically and safely evacuate American citizens, while maintaining sufficient military presence to ensure the operation. This includes control of the airport and/or other ports of exit.

Then... you begin to withdraw other key personnel not vital to the military presence that must be maintained throughout the evacuation.

And so on and so forth.

In short... there is (or should be) some heavy-duty logistics involved to ensure everything goes well, safely, and according to plan.

This not only to guarantee the safety of all evacuees... but to avoid looking foolish to the rest of the world.

It's not like the U.S. hasn't had practice at this already.

If they'd started evacuating earlier the Afghan army would have collapsed even faster and Biden would be getting the blame for the collapse of the army. There's no good way this could have worked out.

With the benefit of hindsight once the provincial capitals stated falling the military should have told Biden to surge thousands of troops into the country but then you'd have the US military eventually retrating and leaving the country chased out by the Taliban and thousands of Americans who were out in the provinces taken hostage etc etc. It's a horrific situation any way you look at it. This is probably the least worst scenario once the Afghan army had folded up overnight. Still really bad though. Lots of blame to go round.

I wasn't advocating evacuating earlier. I was advocating better planning.

[Kirkland Laing]

Yeah... back to the topic at hand.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/22/10301...tan-evacuation

"Biden Touts 'Incredible' Evacuation Operation From Kabul, But Warns Of Ongoing Danger"



Sorry... I don't buy the "touting." Too bad all pro-Trump fans have evacuated this forum... because right now I'd be agreeing with them about just how badly this administration screwed this up.

Hostile Country Evacuation 101 -

First you systematically and safely evacuate American citizens, while maintaining sufficient military presence to ensure the operation. This includes control of the airport and/or other ports of exit.

Then... you begin to withdraw other key personnel not vital to the military presence that must be maintained throughout the evacuation.

And so on and so forth.

In short... there is (or should be) some heavy-duty logistics involved to ensure everything goes well, safely, and according to plan.

This not only to guarantee the safety of all evacuees... but to avoid looking foolish to the rest of the world.

It's not like the U.S. hasn't had practice at this already.

If they'd started evacuating earlier the Afghan army would have collapsed even faster and Biden would be getting the blame for the collapse of the army. There's no good way this could have worked out.

With the benefit of hindsight once the provincial capitals stated falling the military should have told Biden to surge thousands of troops into the country but then you'd have the US military eventually retrating and leaving the country chased out by the Taliban and thousands of Americans who were out in the provinces taken hostage etc etc. It's a horrific situation any way you look at it. This is probably the least worst scenario once the Afghan army had folded up overnight. Still really bad though. Lots of blame to go round.

I wasn't advocating evacuating earlier. I was advocating better planning.

All the planning in the world isn't going to help you if the Afghan army collapses overnight. You're left having to choose which turd you'd most like to step in.

[Kirkland Laing]

I served in Afghanistan as a US Marine, twice. Here’s the truth in two sentences



What we are seeing in Afghanistan right now shouldn’t shock you. It only seems that way because our institutions are steeped in systematic dishonesty. It doesn’t require a dissertation to explain what you’re seeing. Just two sentences.
One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.
Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.
I know because I was there. Twice. On special operations task forces. I learned Pashto as a U.S. Marine captain and spoke to everyone I could there: everyday people, elites, allies and yes, even the Taliban.
The truth is that the Afghan National Security Forces was a jobs program for Afghans, propped up by U.S. taxpayer dollars — a military jobs program populated by nonmilitary people or “paper” forces (that didn’t really exist) and a bevy of elites grabbing what they could when they could.
You probably didn’t know that. That’s the point.
And it wasn’t just in Afghanistan. They also lied about Iraq.
I led a team of Marines training Iraqi security forces to defend their country. When I arrived I received a “stoplight” chart on their supposed capabilities in dozens of missions and responsibilities. Green meant they were good. Yellow was needed improvement; red said they couldn’t do it at all.
I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.
So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call......



https://news.yahoo.com/served-afghan...l?guccounter=2

[Kirkland Laing]

https://jabberwocking.com/chart-of-t...f-afghanistan/

[TitoFan]

Yeah... back to the topic at hand.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/22/10301...tan-evacuation

"Biden Touts 'Incredible' Evacuation Operation From Kabul, But Warns Of Ongoing Danger"



Sorry... I don't buy the "touting." Too bad all pro-Trump fans have evacuated this forum... because right now I'd be agreeing with them about just how badly this administration screwed this up.

Hostile Country Evacuation 101 -

First you systematically and safely evacuate American citizens, while maintaining sufficient military presence to ensure the operation. This includes control of the airport and/or other ports of exit.

Then... you begin to withdraw other key personnel not vital to the military presence that must be maintained throughout the evacuation.

And so on and so forth.

In short... there is (or should be) some heavy-duty logistics involved to ensure everything goes well, safely, and according to plan.

This not only to guarantee the safety of all evacuees... but to avoid looking foolish to the rest of the world.

It's not like the U.S. hasn't had practice at this already.

If they'd started evacuating earlier the Afghan army would have collapsed even faster and Biden would be getting the blame for the collapse of the army. There's no good way this could have worked out.

With the benefit of hindsight once the provincial capitals stated falling the military should have told Biden to surge thousands of troops into the country but then you'd have the US military eventually retrating and leaving the country chased out by the Taliban and thousands of Americans who were out in the provinces taken hostage etc etc. It's a horrific situation any way you look at it. This is probably the least worst scenario once the Afghan army had folded up overnight. Still really bad though. Lots of blame to go round.

I wasn't advocating evacuating earlier. I was advocating better planning.

All the planning in the world isn't going to help you if the Afghan army collapses overnight. You're left having to choose which turd you'd most like to step in.

Better planning would've saved some lives, many of whom might still be in danger because of the poor planning. The Afghan army collapse was inevitable given the U.S. exit. It was gonna happen anyway. Better planning and communication wouldn't have prevented the Afghan army collapse. But it would've saved some lives and done a better job at preserving public opinion on the administration's handling of the matter.

[TitoFan]

The U.S. had been in Afghanistan for two decades. What was the rush that poor planning had to cause the chaos and PR disaster it did? The decision had been made. But planning and execution was piss poor. You see... that's the problem with politics. It takes away the objectivity to admit your guy f*cked up when he actually did.

[TitoFan]

Don't argue with me. Argue with them.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/23/p...den/index.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/afghani...-opinion-poll/

[SlimTrae]

Before Tim Russert of Meet the Press passed he interviewed Biden asking him what would he propose. Joe replied he had 2 answers.
1. if we pull out now, we will look bad.
2. Wait to pull out and see it get worse.

In that regard I concur with Biden- but the Democratic Party weren't listening. it was about Hillary or Barrack...

[Kirkland Laing]

Yeah... back to the topic at hand.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/22/10301...tan-evacuation

"Biden Touts 'Incredible' Evacuation Operation From Kabul, But Warns Of Ongoing Danger"



Sorry... I don't buy the "touting." Too bad all pro-Trump fans have evacuated this forum... because right now I'd be agreeing with them about just how badly this administration screwed this up.

Hostile Country Evacuation 101 -

First you systematically and safely evacuate American citizens, while maintaining sufficient military presence to ensure the operation. This includes control of the airport and/or other ports of exit.

Then... you begin to withdraw other key personnel not vital to the military presence that must be maintained throughout the evacuation.

And so on and so forth.

In short... there is (or should be) some heavy-duty logistics involved to ensure everything goes well, safely, and according to plan.

This not only to guarantee the safety of all evacuees... but to avoid looking foolish to the rest of the world.

It's not like the U.S. hasn't had practice at this already.

If they'd started evacuating earlier the Afghan army would have collapsed even faster and Biden would be getting the blame for the collapse of the army. There's no good way this could have worked out.

With the benefit of hindsight once the provincial capitals stated falling the military should have told Biden to surge thousands of troops into the country but then you'd have the US military eventually retrating and leaving the country chased out by the Taliban and thousands of Americans who were out in the provinces taken hostage etc etc. It's a horrific situation any way you look at it. This is probably the least worst scenario once the Afghan army had folded up overnight. Still really bad though. Lots of blame to go round.

I wasn't advocating evacuating earlier. I was advocating better planning.

All the planning in the world isn't going to help you if the Afghan army collapses overnight. You're left having to choose which turd you'd most like to step in.

Better planning would've saved some lives, many of whom might still be in danger because of the poor planning. The Afghan army collapse was inevitable given the U.S. exit. It was gonna happen anyway. Better planning and communication wouldn't have prevented the Afghan army collapse. But it would've saved some lives and done a better job at preserving public opinion on the administration's handling of the matter.

Starting to evacuate people at an earlier date would have precipitated an even faster collapse. It may have ended up killing more people than will end up being killed in the current situation. There's no way of knowing what would have been the best way to do this even with the benefit of hindsight. Just like Britney Spears this was not the way they planned it, they would have been aware of the possibility of the Afghan army collapsing overnight but the various other factors in play made them decide to do what they're doing.

There was no great option here. It was just a case of picking the least worst option. We'll never know if they managed to do that or not.

[Kirkland Laing]

Don't argue with me. Argue with them.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/23/p...den/index.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/afghani...-opinion-poll/

And asking the American people anything, come on. Ninety odd percent of them couldn't find Afghanistan on a map or answer a couple of simple questions about the place. There have been polls showing majorities in favour of staying and majorities in favour of leaving. All of these people have watched tv showing chaos and it certainly looks like it could have been planned better so that's the answer they're going to give but in truth we'll never know whether the US did in fact manage to pursue the least worst option.

[TitoFan]

Yeah... back to the topic at hand.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/22/10301...tan-evacuation

"Biden Touts 'Incredible' Evacuation Operation From Kabul, But Warns Of Ongoing Danger"



Sorry... I don't buy the "touting." Too bad all pro-Trump fans have evacuated this forum... because right now I'd be agreeing with them about just how badly this administration screwed this up.

Hostile Country Evacuation 101 -

First you systematically and safely evacuate American citizens, while maintaining sufficient military presence to ensure the operation. This includes control of the airport and/or other ports of exit.

Then... you begin to withdraw other key personnel not vital to the military presence that must be maintained throughout the evacuation.

And so on and so forth.

In short... there is (or should be) some heavy-duty logistics involved to ensure everything goes well, safely, and according to plan.

This not only to guarantee the safety of all evacuees... but to avoid looking foolish to the rest of the world.

It's not like the U.S. hasn't had practice at this already.

If they'd started evacuating earlier the Afghan army would have collapsed even faster and Biden would be getting the blame for the collapse of the army. There's no good way this could have worked out.

With the benefit of hindsight once the provincial capitals stated falling the military should have told Biden to surge thousands of troops into the country but then you'd have the US military eventually retrating and leaving the country chased out by the Taliban and thousands of Americans who were out in the provinces taken hostage etc etc. It's a horrific situation any way you look at it. This is probably the least worst scenario once the Afghan army had folded up overnight. Still really bad though. Lots of blame to go round.

I wasn't advocating evacuating earlier. I was advocating better planning.

All the planning in the world isn't going to help you if the Afghan army collapses overnight. You're left having to choose which turd you'd most like to step in.

Better planning would've saved some lives, many of whom might still be in danger because of the poor planning. The Afghan army collapse was inevitable given the U.S. exit. It was gonna happen anyway. Better planning and communication wouldn't have prevented the Afghan army collapse. But it would've saved some lives and done a better job at preserving public opinion on the administration's handling of the matter.

Starting to evacuate people at an earlier date would have precipitated an even faster collapse. It may have ended up killing more people than will end up being killed in the current situation. There's no way of knowing what would have been the best way to do this even with the benefit of hindsight. Just like Britney Spears this was not the way they planned it, they would have been aware of the possibility of the Afghan army collapsing overnight but the various other factors in play made them decide to do what they're doing.

There was no great option here. It was just a case of picking the least worst option. We'll never know if they managed to do that or not.

You went "earlier" again. I didn't say "earlier." I said better planning. In fact, it could've been done later, if that's what it would take to make sure the planning was as good as it could be. The U.S. had been there for two decades. A few more weeks wouldn't have mattered much in the grand scheme of things.

BTW... public opinion may be flawed due to lack of knowledge of some people... but it remains a measuring stick against which all Presidents have and will continue to be measured. If the public at least had the perception that a withdrawal was being meticulously and carefully planned... even the inevitable messes would be more excused.

Biden's not Trump. For that we're both glad. But I'm not gonna defend every single decision Biden makes... just like I never condemned every single move Trump made. I like to think that makes me objective.

[Kirkland Laing]

You went "earlier" again. I didn't say "earlier." I said better planning. In fact, it could've been done later, if that's what it would take to make sure the planning was as good as it could be. The U.S. had been there for two decades. A few more weeks wouldn't have mattered much in the grand scheme of things.

BTW... public opinion may be flawed due to lack of knowledge of some people... but it remains a measuring stick against which all Presidents have and will continue to be measured. If the public at least had the perception that a withdrawal was being meticulously and carefully planned... even the inevitable messes would be more excused.

Biden's not Trump. For that we're both glad. But I'm not gonna defend every single decision Biden makes... just like I never condemned every single move Trump made. I like to think that makes me objective.

I don't know you could plan it any better. If you mean by better planning that everybody gets out without a scratch then that would be great but that's not real life. Deciding what to do in the various possible scenarios is probabilistic. Any option you pick has a chance of going wrong in different ways to the option you eventually pick.