Spence activates rematch clause.

[TitoFan]

Posted as much in another thread... and will post it here.

Rematch will probably happen at 154. Spence may or may not be more competitive... but he gets whupped again.

Activating the clause takes the Canelo-Crawford circus off the boards, at least for now. One less obstacle to allow Canelo to keep avoiding the dangerous opponents in his OWN weight division.

[Spicoli]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

[TIC]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement options

[Spicoli]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement options

Never been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.

[greynotsoold]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement options

Never been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.

I don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.

[Primo Carnera]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement options

Never been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.

I don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.

Really interesting, as always. Do you think that those issues about weight distribution and transfer show in Anthony Joshua as well?

[Rotten Apple]

Fight needs to happen at 154 for Spence to even have a chance

[greynotsoold]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement options

Never been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.

I don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.

Really interesting, as always. Do you think that those issues about weight distribution and transfer show in Anthony Joshua as well?

I don't think that I have seen Joshua since he started working with Derrick James.

[TitoFan]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement options

Never been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.

I don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.

Good analysis, and no disagreement in any of your points. Especially considering your source.
My only question is... which I'm sure has been on everybody's mind... how in the hell was Spence able to accumulate such a sterling (and undefeated) record prior to suddenly getting dismantled by Crawford??

This has to be one of the most shocking outcomes of such a high profile and hyped fight. Spence-Crawford was THE fight, that everybody was clamoring for. It took long enough to bring both sides to the table in earnest.
Expectations were at an all-time high.

Then THIS happens...

Spence looked like a child fighting a man. He had no answers. You're right. No tune-up is going to help Spence. In fact, it may officialize his demise as an elite fighter. Right now Spence is still a one-loss fighter. He lost to probably the #1 p4p fighter in the world (I personally still put Inoue ahead of him). So Spence isn't all of a sudden "trash." He DOES have to be careful where he goes from here, though. I still think his best move is a rematch at 154. He may lose anyhow. But no way (one would think) he gets steamrolled like he did in the first fight.

[Denilson3.0]

If he dies......he dies

Not sure if Spence should keep fighting, let alone fight Crawford.

If he dies......he dies

Hopefully he fails the physical and is forced to retire.

Spence is and prides himself on being a urination fighter, as in once he gets into his rhythm he's going to urinate all over you, but Crawford, due to his far superior skill level, was able swim in his urine without getting wet and Spence was the one who subsequently ended up getting urinated on.

Spence is going to get soaked again in the rematch

His accident did irreparable damage and is progressively degrading and deteriorating more and more by the year. To continue to incur head trauma, posing not only a threat to his long term health but to his life itself. Spence seems like a good guy and I have no desire to see him become a vegetable or possibly worse, so hopefully some higher ups get involved and squash this rematch by any means necessary and let's get the fighter that most ppl want to see Crawford face next which is him against Boots.

[J_Undisputed]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement options

Never been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.

I don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.

Good analysis, and no disagreement in any of your points. Especially considering your source.
My only question is... which I'm sure has been on everybody's mind... how in the hell was Spence able to accumulate such a sterling (and undefeated) record prior to suddenly getting dismantled by Crawford??

This has to be one of the most shocking outcomes of such a high profile and hyped fight. Spence-Crawford was THE fight, that everybody was clamoring for. It took long enough to bring both sides to the table in earnest.
Expectations were at an all-time high.

Then THIS happens...

Spence looked like a child fighting a man. He had no answers. You're right. No tune-up is going to help Spence. In fact, it may officialize his demise as an elite fighter. Right now Spence is still a one-loss fighter. He lost to probably the #1 p4p fighter in the world (I personally still put Inoue ahead of him). So Spence isn't all of a sudden "trash." He DOES have to be careful where he goes from here, though. I still think his best move is a rematch at 154. He may lose anyhow. But no way (one would think) he gets steamrolled like he did in the first fight.

It could just be me being biased but, I was never big on Spence. He had some good fights and I think he still can have an edge over some 154lb fighters just based on a willingness to mix it up. He was moving along at a normal pace and then everyone anointed him the next big thing after giving Mayweather a black eye and maybe a rib issue in sparring (for guerrero)and Mayweather talked him up. I just remember thinking "over a sparring match?"... I get it sometimes that its all we have to go on and sometimes things get heated and it becomes the stuff of legend. Stuff that is typically unheard of against certain fighters (like page dropping tyson). I'll say after that I did make a note to catch spence's fights after that but still wasn't sold on him being the greatest. Every fighter seemed to have a "but..."

but Mikey Garcia was a 135lb fighter....
but Lamont Peterson was never the same after Mathysse
but Kell Brook just had his head squashed like a grape against GGG
but Danny Garcia lost to a unheralded Mauricio Herrera.
etc.

I mean its no small feat eventually steamrolling or overwhelming Smaller fighters, older fighters or gate keepers and it its par for the course with most fighters. I guess maybe I was looking for what everyone else saw and just came up empty too much. I thought Porter would take him, and even when he didn't I think he did enough where I could see a rematch going either way.

In regards to the shock...
I think it could have been a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other. 6 thinking that spence was greater than he was because of the above... and half a dozen of Crawford having lack luster promotions and being left on the back burner to cook too long took scuffing up his shine. Not everyone was saw Crawford as a sleeper or sorts, but definitely a lot of people dismissed the punches landed on Spence prior and the mistakes because he eventually over came and bullied them into submission. Overachiever meets underachiever billed as Immovable object vs. Unstoppable Force.

Crawford deserves credit and is a role model for kids when you talk about believing in yourself and it being the path from Perceiving to achieving. Left his promoter, went independent. Kicked in the door, hung tough, cut a deal With a nod of from spence, got his shot... the rest is History. Credit to spence for believing in himself enough to put it all on the line and for what he has accomplished, my personal criticisms aside.

[Kirkland Laing]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement options

Never been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.

I don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.

This is it. Spence's style has a limited shelf life and he knows he may have gone past his expiry date and so now more than ever the rest of his career is about paydays. The rematch is by far the biggest payday he can get at 154. If he loses he's only still lost to one guy and is marketable to some extent at 154 having banked the rematch money. If he takes a tuneup he could easily look shot and nobody wants to see the rematch. So he's going to do the rematch.

Crawford's thinking won't be too dissimilar either. He is apparently not going to be around much longer and the rematch is the biggest cheque at 154 and could/should be another easy night's work for him. He's then an established name at 154 and unbeaten and may have improved his box office power with two defeats of Spence. It puts him in the best position he could possibly be in. The rematch works for both of them.

[Big J]

The rematch is the price we have to pay for getting the 1st fight

[Spicoli]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement options

Never been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.

I don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.

I suppose if I came from the premise that he was completely done I can see that route. As far as preserving it all for one last big payday. But however brutal and one way the fight went I hold a little hope and belief for a rebuild. The attempt of one at least. It's really just hard to say and know for sure where he is post Crawford. Though it seemed before the bell sounded that he had a certain resignation in his demeanor and all around "look". Often we see guys spiral down when knocked off the perch never to return. Especially off of one-way knockouts. And his age is a big factor. But he could very well mount it all for one last recommitted charge with a now cemented and rival who he's seen in the ring. Even if thru a crimson swollen mask. Clearly Crawford is a massive favorite and he also has seen what Spence works with. So he too will be expected to surpass his own victory. But I think 154 will suit Spence much better. To me his biggest obstacle is upstairs here. He like so many fighters today contributed to his downfall with unreal inactivity and almost a lazy mindset. Be it Bud or someone else, he sure as shit better fully recommit to have himself fully tuned or he'll go the way of so many before him. The man could wind up a trivia question. But I'll always give a guy taking his first loss to the very best, 1 or 2, fighter in the world today at least some benefit of the doubt. It's entirely on him.

The trainer roulette wheel I'll defer and take the word of a professional like yourself. Have no idea. I'm thinking though that a tune up is more for the trainer/fighter new waters intro. Or at this level can much of that be determined in the gym? He's 33 and rather work out a kink or try things vs some light touch under live lights with a crowd than immediately back under the burner with Crawford. He's no pup and has always been a little stand head high too. As a businessman he can play safe and guaranteed for rematch but getting 'back' on his own terms first and notching a win can be a benefit. In a way it feels like that was much of the problem leading in. That mental and physical stagnation that helps to sabotage. You simply cannot be "the best" bringing "the best" with literally just 1 fight over 2.5 years! That goes for all of them. It's insane and a massive problem in boxing today. Guys just waiting for the lottery to fall in their lap, tip toing around each other rather than take that chance. If the pressure of a tune up is more than he can handle even after his last fight then maybe it's for the better that way. Guys calling themselves p4p or being handed immediate rankings today should feel pressure to perform. Be under the spotlight. But too many hide out, just waiting. Mentalities are different now. I look back at how ravaged and written off maybe a Meldrick Taylor was post Chavez. And he was shot up. But compared to today he was still able to mount a comeback, claim a championship and get himself back into a massive fight with Norris. One that proved a brutal bridge too far of course. Then again, he was what...7,8 years younger than Spence? Maybe it's not a good thing to compare the two . Let the chips fall where they may.

[Kirkland Laing]

Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.

calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement options

Never been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.

I don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.

I suppose if I came from the premise that he was completely done I can see that route. As far as preserving it all for one last big payday. But however brutal and one way the fight went I hold a little hope and belief for a rebuild. The attempt of one at least. It's really just hard to say and know for sure where he is post Crawford. Though it seemed before the bell sounded that he had a certain resignation in his demeanor and all around "look". Often we see guys spiral down when knocked off the perch never to return. Especially off of one-way knockouts. And his age is a big factor. But he could very well mount it all for one last recommitted charge with a now cemented and rival who he's seen in the ring. Even if thru a crimson swollen mask. Clearly Crawford is a massive favorite and he also has seen what Spence works with. So he too will be expected to surpass his own victory. But I think 154 will suit Spence much better. To me his biggest obstacle is upstairs here. He like so many fighters today contributed to his downfall with unreal inactivity and almost a lazy mindset. Be it Bud or someone else, he sure as shit better fully recommit to have himself fully tuned or he'll go the way of so many before him. The man could wind up a trivia question. But I'll always give a guy taking his first loss to the very best, 1 or 2, fighter in the world today at least some benefit of the doubt. It's entirely on him.

The trainer roulette wheel I'll defer and take the word of a professional like yourself. Have no idea. I'm thinking though that a tune up is more for the trainer/fighter new waters intro. Or at this level can much of that be determined in the gym? He's 33 and rather work out a kink or try things vs some light touch under live lights with a crowd than immediately back under the burner with Crawford. He's no pup and has always been a little stand head high too. As a businessman he can play safe and guaranteed for rematch but getting 'back' on his own terms first and notching a win can be a benefit. In a way it feels like that was much of the problem leading in. That mental and physical stagnation that helps to sabotage. You simply cannot be "the best" bringing "the best" with literally just 1 fight over 2.5 years! That goes for all of them. It's insane and a massive problem in boxing today. Guys just waiting for the lottery to fall in their lap, tip toing around each other rather than take that chance. If the pressure of a tune up is more than he can handle even after his last fight then maybe it's for the better that way. Guys calling themselves p4p or being handed immediate rankings today should feel pressure to perform. Be under the spotlight. But too many hide out, just waiting. Mentalities are different now. I look back at how ravaged and written off maybe a Meldrick Taylor was post Chavez. And he was shot up. But compared to today he was still able to mount a comeback, claim a championship and get himself back into a massive fight with Norris. One that proved a brutal bridge too far of course. Then again, he was what...7,8 years younger than Spence? Maybe it's not a good thing to compare the two . Let the chips fall where they may.

Emanuel Steward had a few things he called as close to iron laws of boxing as you could get and one of them was in rematches the more skilled fighter almost always wins. I don't think there's any rebuild Spence can do that is going to change things. Maybe his timing can improve but his hands and feet are not going to get any faster. Well behind as far as boxing brain goes too. Maybe Crawford is bullshitting that moving to 154 would help him too and it turns into a massive Spence advantage but even if the extra weight really helps Spence I just see Crawford sharpshooting Spence for twelve rounds off the back foot and winning basically every round. Too fast and too slick.