Who is next for Canelo?

[TIC]

who is forcing david b to move up? he could have faced david morrell, his promoter claimed a fight between them was signed last year. pbc can't get david b jaime either? what about christian mbilli? team david b are choosing to move up to fight a thirty six year old who was beaten into a three year retirement. eddy reynoso is also denying that any offer has been received to fight david b & sampson lewkowicz has mysteriously deleted his tweet i posted above claiming an offer was made. i'm not defending canelo here, canelo is going to do what canelo wants. there are very good fights for david b to make at super middle. there is no need to wait on another fighter to define your legacy, make your own

[TitoFan]

Does anybody recall any of these shenanigans in the days of Marquez, Barrera, Morales??

Hey... I know, just like everyone else, that a certain amount of ducking and "A-siding" has always been a part of boxing. But really??

When has there been anywhere near the amount of hate for a fighter (who's obviously good) as there is for Canelo? And I'm not talking about this forum. I'm talking about social media, where just about every post brings scores of comments... some in favor, but many against... about the red-headed diva.

I don't remember there being (other than PED users, which BTW Ginger got his wrist slapped about also) so much controversy surrounding champions of the past. If we're talking strictly Mexican fighters, I don't recall the aforementioned three (or any of the other champions) being as universally reviled for shenanigans like "marinating", "protecting the zero", catchweights, trinket-chasing, weight-draining, plain ol' ducking, and many of the other shit that this clown has subjected boxing to over the last decade or so.

And it's almost exclusively Ginger. Because all around him... fights go on as usual. The best fighting the best... zeros be damned. Very little drama (well... except in the heavyweights with Fury). Just good boxing, with fighters taking risks like in the good old days. Personally... I can't wait till this clown retires. He THINKS he's going to go down in history as one of the very best... when in reality history will see him as one of the most controversial fighters in history, for his penchant for chasing undersized, over-the-hill, or otherwise disadvantaged fighters.

Remember when he tried to get Badou Jack to drain himself 20 pounds? Badou basically told him to shove it up his ass... for which I was ecstatically happy.

No matter how you slice it... the fact of the matter is: Canelo is on his own lonely island when it comes to having a manufactured career. That is precisely why many true boxing fans (Mexicans included) loathe him... and why opinions are so divided and polarized on social media. You can love a fighter or you can hate a fighter. But it's usually because of PED use or other factors like that. With Canelo it's because of the carefully built, untouchable personna he has built for himself.

Oh... and let's not kid ourselves. Ginger has avoided David Benavidez like the plague.


F*CK Canelo.

[TIC]

Does anybody recall any of these shenanigans in the days of Marquez, Barrera, Morales??

Hey... I know, just like everyone else, that a certain amount of ducking and "A-siding" has always been a part of boxing. But really??

When has there been anywhere near the amount of hate for a fighter (who's obviously good) as there is for Canelo? And I'm not talking about this forum. I'm talking about social media, where just about every post brings scores of comments... some in favor, but many against... about the red-headed diva.

I don't remember there being (other than PED users, which BTW Ginger got his wrist slapped about also) so much controversy surrounding champions of the past. If we're talking strictly Mexican fighters, I don't recall the aforementioned three (or any of the other champions) being as universally reviled for shenanigans like "marinating", "protecting the zero", catchweights, trinket-chasing, weight-draining, plain ol' ducking, and many of the other shit that this clown has subjected boxing to over the last decade or so.

And it's almost exclusively Ginger. Because all around him... fights go on as usual. The best fighting the best... zeros be damned. Very little drama (well... except in the heavyweights with Fury). Just good boxing, with fighters taking risks like in the good old days. Personally... I can't wait till this clown retires. He THINKS he's going to go down in history as one of the very best... when in reality history will see him as one of the most controversial fighters in history, for his penchant for chasing undersized, over-the-hill, or otherwise disadvantaged fighters.

Remember when he tried to get Badou Jack to drain himself 20 pounds? Badou basically told him to shove it up his ass... for which I was ecstatically happy.

No matter how you slice it... the fact of the matter is: Canelo is on his own lonely island when it comes to having a manufactured career. That is precisely why many true boxing fans (Mexicans included) loathe him... and why opinions are so divided and polarized on social media. You can love a fighter or you can hate a fighter. But it's usually because of PED use or other factors like that. With Canelo it's because of the carefully built, untouchable personna he has built for himself.

Oh... and let's not kid ourselves. Ginger has avoided David Benavidez like the plague.


F*CK Canelo.

juan manuel marquez, marco antonio barrera & erik morales were never anywhere the crossover star canelo is. depends on what you mean by hate. floyd had just as much. tyson fury must have a lot. i heard the crowds cheering loudly when macho camacho & the prince lost, both were despised at that time. i'm not sure why you have to restrict the discussion to strictly mexican fighters, unless you are pushing your bias & not wanting to highlight that many of the things you mentioned have been done by other fighters throughout the sports history. not all big fights go on as usual. artur v dmitry has taken longer than errol v bud to get made. canelo is already a first ballet hall of famer, who still has the potential to be an all time great. history will look back favourably on canelo. how carefully built was it to take on floyd? what about ggg in the rematch? what about dmitry? canelo hasn't fought david b as yet, we'll have to wait & see if he never fights him. canelo didn't make david b lose his belt twice did he? if david b had been more disciplined who knows how things go. there is blame to pass around in many places. if david b really wants the canelo fight, why is he planning to move up? his manager said they had a signed agreement for david morrell, why can't they make that fight now? what about christian mbilli or jaime? can david b no longer make super middle? that's not canelo's fault if that's the case. focusing on one fighter to make your legacy is ridiculous, there are plenty of other fighters out there to build a legacy against

[TitoFan]

Does anybody recall any of these shenanigans in the days of Marquez, Barrera, Morales??

Hey... I know, just like everyone else, that a certain amount of ducking and "A-siding" has always been a part of boxing. But really??

When has there been anywhere near the amount of hate for a fighter (who's obviously good) as there is for Canelo? And I'm not talking about this forum. I'm talking about social media, where just about every post brings scores of comments... some in favor, but many against... about the red-headed diva.

I don't remember there being (other than PED users, which BTW Ginger got his wrist slapped about also) so much controversy surrounding champions of the past. If we're talking strictly Mexican fighters, I don't recall the aforementioned three (or any of the other champions) being as universally reviled for shenanigans like "marinating", "protecting the zero", catchweights, trinket-chasing, weight-draining, plain ol' ducking, and many of the other shit that this clown has subjected boxing to over the last decade or so.

And it's almost exclusively Ginger. Because all around him... fights go on as usual. The best fighting the best... zeros be damned. Very little drama (well... except in the heavyweights with Fury). Just good boxing, with fighters taking risks like in the good old days. Personally... I can't wait till this clown retires. He THINKS he's going to go down in history as one of the very best... when in reality history will see him as one of the most controversial fighters in history, for his penchant for chasing undersized, over-the-hill, or otherwise disadvantaged fighters.

Remember when he tried to get Badou Jack to drain himself 20 pounds? Badou basically told him to shove it up his ass... for which I was ecstatically happy.

No matter how you slice it... the fact of the matter is: Canelo is on his own lonely island when it comes to having a manufactured career. That is precisely why many true boxing fans (Mexicans included) loathe him... and why opinions are so divided and polarized on social media. You can love a fighter or you can hate a fighter. But it's usually because of PED use or other factors like that. With Canelo it's because of the carefully built, untouchable personna he has built for himself.

Oh... and let's not kid ourselves. Ginger has avoided David Benavidez like the plague.


F*CK Canelo.

juan manuel marquez, marco antonio barrera & erik morales were never anywhere the crossover star canelo is. depends on what you mean by hate. floyd had just as much. tyson fury must have a lot. i heard the crowds cheering loudly when macho camacho & the prince lost, both were despised at that time. i'm not sure why you have to restrict the discussion to strictly mexican fighters, unless you are pushing your bias & not wanting to highlight that many of the things you mentioned have been done by other fighters throughout the sports history. not all big fights go on as usual. artur v dmitry has taken longer than errol v bud to get made. canelo is already a first ballet hall of famer, who still has the potential to be an all time great. history will look back favourably on canelo. how carefully built was it to take on floyd? what about ggg in the rematch? what about dmitry? canelo hasn't fought david b as yet, we'll have to wait & see if he never fights him. canelo didn't make david b lose his belt twice did he? if david b had been more disciplined who knows how things go. there is blame to pass around in many places. if david b really wants the canelo fight, why is he planning to move up? his manager said they had a signed agreement for david morrell, why can't they make that fight now? what about christian mbilli or jaime? can david b no longer make super middle? that's not canelo's fault if that's the case. focusing on one fighter to make your legacy is ridiculous, there are plenty of other fighters out there to build a legacy against

I'll answer one of your questions quickly and easily.

I restricted my comparison strictly to Mexican fighters because I want to make it clear that my bias is not against Mexican fighters in general. A fact that should be clear by now after umpteen years in the forum, but just in case. I specifically mention that Barrera, Morales, Marquez, et al were beloved fighters. I myself was a big fan... especially of MAB and JMM.

Now for your mentioned examples. Floyd. Yes... Floyd is loved by some... hated by others. He's got some of the same criticisms as Canelo does. Carefully protected his "0", even to the point of maybe avoiding some fighters at certain times. Others hate him because of his off-ring personna. Me... I don't like Floyd the person, but respect Floyd the fighter. Fury? Yes... another love-hate guy. I personally don't like him at all. Talks a whole lot... and his only claim to fame as far as I'm concerned is taking on the boogeyman when nobody else (read: Joshua) was jumping at the opportunity to face him. Did a good job on Wilder, too. But Fury's too much of a soap opera clown to suit me. Camacho? I was never a fan. Nassem? Goes without saying. I became MORE of a fan of MAB when he humiliated Prince. But both Camacho and Naseem faced all comers. Any time... anywhere. Few if any diva clauses.

You throw around a lot of other names. But fact of the matter is I've been a boxing fan a long time. And Canelo is a new (and hopefully one-shot) breed. This carefully crafting of a career with undersized and over-the-hill blokes got old a LONG time ago. And my point stands. You NEVER had the amount of criticism on these other hated fighters that you have against Ginger. Even past champions, like Chavez Sr. and even JMM himself (both Mexican) have weighed in on the shortcomings of Canelo. Sure... they have to be careful not to incur the wrath of this new generation of Mexican boxing fanhood. That's why they don't pile it on.

Canelo's fights against Floyd, GGG, Bivol? With Floyd it was a case of clamoring for the fight, claiming he belonged in the same ring. Turned out to be one of my favorite fights of Floyd. A total shutout. GGG? You mean the guy Canelo spent a long time "marinating" the fight... only to go up to 164 and fight JCC Jr? This, BTW, was the precursor to something Ginger was to do his whole career. Jump weights in a calculated fashion to take calculated "risks." Then jump back down to avoid the real ones. Bivol was a gross miscalculation on Ginger and his team... and I'm sure Canelo has spent many a night regretting that.

There is NOT excuse on Earth as to why Canelo can't give Benavidez a shot. The real reason is that Canelo only takes fights against feather-fisted British victims... er... fighters, or dudes three weight divisions lower than himself. Either that... or he's trying to drag cruiserweights down to his level.

Canelo's a joke, and I'll be happy when he leaves boxing.

[TIC]

i just think if you want to discuss a fighter you should be able to acknowledge when the same thing i done by other fighters. i also respect floyd as a fighter but more in his earlier years. much of his career after the jose castillo rematch i could do without. i do give him credit for how he handle canelo though, although the catchweight takes some shine off for me. tyson knew deontay was a limited fighter, that's why he fought him only three fights into his return & then twice more. i only mentioned macho & the prince because of how much distain they received, nothing to do with who they fought. whenever you reach the level canelo is at you will always receive a degree of hate, the reasons can differ immensely. you said canelo's been carefully built. taking on floyd is not careful building, most thought canelo lost the first fight to ggg, canelo took the immediate rematch, that is careful building & if dmitry was a gross miscalculation, then that's not careful building. one excuse for canelo not to fight david b is that he doesn't have to yet, david b is not his mandatory & the fight hasn't been ordered. canelo's fought punchers & guys in his same division & above him

[TitoFan]

i just think if you want to discuss a fighter you should be able to acknowledge when the same thing i done by other fighters. i also respect floyd as a fighter but more in his earlier years. much of his career after the jose castillo rematch i could do without. i do give him credit for how he handle canelo though, although the catchweight takes some shine off for me. tyson knew deontay was a limited fighter, that's why he fought him only three fights into his return & then twice more. i only mentioned macho & the prince because of how much distain they received, nothing to do with who they fought. whenever you reach the level canelo is at you will always receive a degree of hate, the reasons can differ immensely. you said canelo's been carefully built. taking on floyd is not careful building, most thought canelo lost the first fight to ggg, canelo took the immediate rematch, that is careful building & if dmitry was a gross miscalculation, then that's not careful building. one excuse for canelo not to fight david b is that he doesn't have to yet, david b is not his mandatory & the fight hasn't been ordered. canelo's fought punchers & guys in his same division & above him

I absolutely acknowledge the same things on other fighters. Always have. Canelo just happens to be head and shoulders above anyone else on these things. Did Floyd protect his "0" when he could've taken bigger challenges at some point in his career? Of course. I agree that Macho and Prince got more than their share of disdain. But like you said it had nothing to do with whom they fought. In fact, that is one of their positive sides to their respective careers. But I'll push back on your statement of "whenever you reach the level canelo is at you will always receive a degree of hate". First, we need to agree on the definition of the word "level." Canelo is a product of the social media age. There have PLENTY of much better fighters than Canelo in the past... and I dare say many more will come in the future. Canelo is a great fighter. Nothing more... nothing less. But he's a social media phenomenon. He's also the darling of legion of casual fans who have little or no recollection of boxing in past decades. You don't have to be old, of course. You just have to be a student of the sport and watch old fights, and research old fighters. You are the exception. Very knowledgeable about the sport and its past... but somehow an avowed Canelo fan. I can name plenty of fighters that achieved the heights of Canelo and MUCH higher... yet did not receive the amount of hate that Canelo receives.

I stick to my point of Canelo's career being carefully built... and of course these are all opinions. You can mention Floyd as an exception. Ok. Floyd was then what Canelo is now. The fighter everyone wants to cash in with. Everyone thinks he's p4p and demands to fight guys like Floyd back then and Canelo now. Hatton thought he was p4p and look what happened to him. Against Floyd AND against Pac. Canelo thought hugely of himself (along with his legions) and demanded a fight with Floyd. Floyd proceeded to call it one of the easiest fights he's ever had. You mention the rematch with GGG. Let's begin with the 1st fight. Once again I'll state... Canelo could've fought GGG a couple of years prior, when GGG was calling him out. That's where the infamous "marinating" term was first coined. Canelo was "not yet ready" to fight GGG at 160. Yet he was ready to go up to 164 and fight JCC's mummy of a son. THEN... he fought GGG. Again, everything under Canelo's terms and convenience. Bivol? Yes, a gross miscalculation. Hey... even Canelo overrides his team once in a while and bites off more than he can chew. But Canelo has a LONG boxing history. Most of his picks for fights have been coldly calculated with minimum risk involved.

David B? I think Spicoli makes some very good points regarding Benavidez, so I won't repeat them. Suffice it to say that Benavidez has been the white elephant in the room for quite some time now. He's been conveniently ignored, while Canelo goes after the Jermell Charlos of the world. It is hard to respect someone like that.

I've been a Canelo hater from the beginning, so there's that. But I know for a fact that some people that started as Canelo fans in the beginning have since seen the light.

If Canelo truly is the "face of boxing", we're screwed.

[Primo Carnera]

Ok let’s put this Floyd v Canelo “who’s the best debate to bed once and for all with facts.
Anti Floyd people say Floyd Cherry picked . Hmmmm, let’s have a look at his last 11 fights (I don’t include the McGregor fight , because as far as I’m concerned, it was more circus than pro Boxing. )

Mayweather vs. Baldomir
Baldomir was The Ring Welterweight champion and was unbeaten in 8 years.
Mayweather vs. De La Hoya
Everything was in De La Hoya’s favour. He was definitely the “A side” and WBC light-middleweight titleholder .
Mayweather vs. Hatton
Unification fight , best 2 in the division.
Comeback
Mayweather vs. Marquez
Mayweather was coming out of a 21-month retirement and Marques was The Ring lightweight champion and #2 pound-for-pound fighter.
Mayweather vs. Mosley
Andre Berto pulled out and although many say Mosley was done, he was The Ring #3 pound-for-pound . Not a bad stand in.
Mayweather vs Ortiz
Ortiz was the WBC welterweight champion .

Mayweather vs. Guerrero

Guerrero was the WBC interim welterweight champion, Ring No. 3 ranked welterweight, and the WBC's mandatory challenger and This was Mayweather's first fight since being released from jail.

Mayweather v Alvarez

“Alvarez was young and inexperienced” - he was 23 with over 40 pro fights.
“Alvarez was made to boil down” - it was 2 lbs. And it was his choice.
Mayweather was 37 YEARS OLD!

Mayweather vs. Maidana
This was a unification bout .Maidana was WBA (Super) welterweight title holder.

Mayweather vs. Maidana II
Some people thought Maidana was robbed and he probably gave Mayweather his toughest ever fight, so he rematches him and beat him fairly convincingly.

Mayweather vs. Pacquiao
Despite the fact that people said it was a few years too late ,(Bizarre seeing as that would be less beneficial to Floyd as he’s 2 years older.) they were still the 2 best fighters on the planet.

Mayweather vs. Berto
I count this as his last fight , I don’t count Macgregor. Mayweather had retired as WBA (Super) champ and Berto was the interim title holder.

Let’s compare that with Canelo ‘s last 11 opponents and see who you think had the better opposition.

Jermell Charlo
John Ryder
GGG
Bivol (LOST)
Plant
Saunders
Yildirim
Callum Smith
Kovalev
Jacobs
Fielding

So we don’t need to discuss this ever again, do we?

[TIC]

when i talk about canelo's level, i am referring to his crossover star appeal, one of the guys in the sport that even casuals know & brings in the big money. i consider aj on that level currently & maybe naoya in japan for the little guys. some of the hate these guys get is warranted, some is unnecessary. look at the hate aj gets at times. some brought on, other times just unnecessary hate. there are those that hat on naoya & will say stuff like tank would kayo him, just to hate on him. i am a canelo fan but have stated recently that i am becoming frustrated but i can acknowledge that he has taken risks in his career & fought some of the best of his time. did all the fights happen when they should have? of course not. but canelo is not alone in this. did he take money fights instead of the best challenges at times? sure he did but again he is not alone in this. i agree that there are much better fighters than canelo in the past, look at someone like finito lopez, he's virtually unknown. guys like muhammad ali were hated at times, mike tyson went through his share, oscar de la hoya still gets his share. some of it is warranted & brought on themselves, other times it's just unnecessary hate. fighting floyd was a huge risk for canelo & there's nothing wrong with losing to a great fighter. sure canelo took his time to fight ggg & took a money fight with jr but he fought ggg before any of these other middleweights did, felix sturm, sergio martinez, miguel cotto. building or marinating a fight is nothing new, there are countless fights we missed out on long before canelo v ggg because of this. & yes he fought ggg again in an immediate rematch after many thought he lost the first fight, another big risk. dmitry was again another risk. i also want to see the david b fight because i think he's earned it by fighting the best opposition but he only won the interim belt against david lemieux after losing his belt twice outside the ring due to his own mistakes. david morrell won his belt nearly a year before that & william scull was made the ibf mandatory two months after david b won his interim belt. so all these guys are in the same boat but all we hear about is david b is being ducked. i just don't understand david b moving up. i think david b v david m is the best fight in the division & want to see it. david b's manager claimed there was a signed agreement but now they don't want to pursue the fight. christian mbilli is number one in the wbc behind canelo & david b. there are good fights for david b to take at super middleweight but he's choosing to move up against a guy that was beaten into a three year retirement. maybe there's some behind the scenes stuff going on where david b might be offered canelo in september if he takes on canelo's fighter, i don't know. as i've said before i am becoming frustrated but it's not only canelo who's doing it, look how long we've waited for tyson v oleksandr, artur v dmitry, bud v errol before that, floyd v manny. if canelo doesn't fight david b or david m this year then i'll definitely be criticizing him loudly

[Spicoli]

who is forcing david b to move up? he could have faced david morrell, his promoter claimed a fight between them was signed last year. pbc can't get david b jaime either? what about christian mbilli? team david b are choosing to move up to fight a thirty six year old who was beaten into a three year retirement. eddy reynoso is also denying that any offer has been received to fight david b & sampson lewkowicz has mysteriously deleted his tweet i posted above claiming an offer was made. i'm not defending canelo here, canelo is going to do what canelo wants. there are very good fights for david b to make at super middle. there is no need to wait on another fighter to define your legacy, make your own

This is all a maneuver with the wbc still padding the cradle for Canelo. It's pretty obvious they tossed it out of the blue with guarantees of interims and titles for Benavidez. This isn't about Benavidez vs the 168 runner ups. David has been the top challenger for literal years now and mandatory under one strap. The man has been ranked 168 Ring #1 longer than Morrell has even been a professional fighter. And he didn't get placed there, he actually beat a fellow top 10. Then he demolished another top 10 to rank up. I like and respect Morrell, he has big things ahead. But this is a fans expectation of Saul Alvarez aka Canelo to step tf up to top challengers and defend vs 168 very best. He is the "face of boxing". YOU are the undisputed. This challenge and mega fight has been a no brainer for years now. Yet we excuse it away so Canelo aka Saul Alvarez can continue his low expectations ppv charade and actually have fans anticipating a fight with TBA. It's embarrassing dude.

[TIC]

so no one forced david b to move up? he chose to? david morrell has held a belt from about the same time david b was eating his way out of a belt & apparently according to his own promoter an agreement was signed to fight david m but he'd prefer to face a guy who was beaten into a three year retirement. all this talk of canelo ducking david b but nothing about david b ducking david morrell

[Spicoli]

Facing a guy off a three year retirement who is still light years ahead of anyone Morrell has yet to or is set to face. Holding a trinket from an org with multiple and beating legit top ranked fighters for a mandatory title shot at Saúl Álvarez are entirely different things. It’s Morrells turn.