IOC embroiled in gender controversy regarding women's boxing

[X]

Just like with Caster Semanya, I feel quite sorry for the two fighters. They were born female, brought up female, they have not transitioned, they are not dopers ……

I imagine life would have been a whole lot easier for the Algerian boxer if she was a male generally.

[TitoFan]

Just like with Caster Semanya, I feel quite sorry for the two fighters. They were born female, brought up female, they have not transitioned, they are not dopers ……

I imagine life would have been a whole lot easier for the Algerian boxer if she was a male generally.

In hindsight, with the knowledge that the Algerian was born a woman, I agree with you.

Yet it's easy to see how all this gets magnified under the current ongoing controversies regarding trans athletes in women's competitions.

People (not you) tend to rush to one side or the other when these things happen.

The "male-looking" Algerian makes the Italian woman quit... people flock to condemn the Algerian, accusing her of being a man.

The Algerian gets cleared... people flock to condemn those who were condemning the Algerian.

The fact of the matter is that a man beating up on a woman is bound to happen in an international (or otherwise) boxing competition. It's only a matter of time.

Boxing authorities have done fuck all in trying to head off potential tragedies, and it's going to come back and bite them in the ass.



I personally had slowly come around to women's boxing, with excellent fighters like Amanda Serrano and Katie Taylor providing better entertainment than some men's matches.

But shit like this tends to chip away at something like women's boxing... and eventually contribute to its undoing.

[Primo Carnera]

Just like with Caster Semanya, I feel quite sorry for the two fighters. They were born female, brought up female, they have not transitioned, they are not dopers ……

I imagine life would have been a whole lot easier for the Algerian boxer if she was a male generally.

Exactly. You have to feel sorry for the fighters. I think the biggest problem is the inconsistency between the AIBA’s and the IOC’s rules .
But , although she’s a female, it is very dangerous to go into a boxing ring with high testosterone levels . It’s not like Caster Semenya running around a track. That poor woman couldn’t hurt anyone.
But these people are punching each other, very different.
However, call me an old fashioned miserable twat, but there is a simple solution to all of this.
I’m sorry , but I think Women’s boxing should not even be a thing!
The difference in standard makes it dangerous in itself. There are one or two decent skilled boxers, and the rest are fucking garbage. And I have to say that anybody that likes watching 2 women smack the shit out of each other needs to have a look at themselves.

[TIC]

it is very dangerous to go into a boxing ring with high testosterone levels

i don't disagree with your statement but what were their levels compared to their peers, if you have that information?

[ykdadamaja]

Isn't high testosterone a sign of doping?

[Spicoli]

She's a she. I don't think there's dispute on that for anyone who took the time and honestly dropped their agendas. But some agendas die hard and to them no differentiation between this case...and trans on whole...need be made. The conflation and inference achieve the goal. The concern is and should be about perceived unfair advantages in sport. Simple as. And this is an entirely new can of worms. The way this absolutely exploded in under 24 hours initially was insane and instantly politicized. I had friends who couldn't tell you the difference between a golf ball and a ping pong ball suddenly become sports experts as quickly as the back to back to back clickbait articles on the mater flooded social media and continue to do so.

Truth be told... this initial outrage and pitchfork grasping has been cooking ever since that initial opening ceremony. That too was instant, and trans became a talking point before the first medal was even awarded. Yes, the IBA is at the root and they dropped a grenade into the outcry and here we are. Do yourself a favor and delve into the organization. Quite the contradictory horseshit interview with the BBC today. And in case anyone is wondering they are currently set to appeal a courts April decision upholding the IOCs barring them. This is so much deeper. Boxing, character assassination, deception and politics...shocked I tell ya. What has managed to happen and seems to be the only certain fact in this CF is that not one, not two but multiple athletes, winners and losers, their lives and reputations have been absolutely torn to shreds and run thru the mud in the court of public opinion and keyboard warriors. Based on a man named Kremlev who today now indicates the two women in question were DQ'd (only after they won) for testosterone levels in tests. Or was it "inconclusive tests". They can't seem to decide. But they have achieved the effect they want. Fair to say that if testosterone levels were measured and made public for participation in female sports, many men would be flat embarrassed and shocked. So, do men with lower testosterone levels in sport now suffer an unfair disadvantage and risk of injury? Can of worms.

[TitoFan]

All I know is the IOC have their hands full come LA2028. The unfair trashing of the Algerian woman notwithstanding, the issue of trans in women's sports isn't going away any time soon. Just like it has created controversy way before the Paris Olympics even began. I mentioned Lia Thomas... and there are sure to be more cases like that. Trans swimmers, sprinters, etc... not to mention the contact sports. While it's wrong to deny anyone their right to compete, it's just as wrong to place them in a category where they don't belong. Some women may suffer from excess bravado, like Claressa Shields, who supposedly has called out men boxers. But that is honestly beside the point. The point is that the separation of men and women in sports is there for a reason. In swimming and running all that is at stake are places on the podium, which itself is bad enough. But when you involve contact sports, like boxing, you've got a whole different ballgame.

I've always consistently mentioned women's sports and elementary education as my biggest beefs with the strong push for trans rights. So at least mentally, "I told you so" thoughts very much cross my mind. This is a mess of our own making. Part of society wants to bend over backwards so desperately, maybe to give off that openness vibe... that common sense has been thrown right out the window.

Yeah, it's too bad that Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting have been abused on social media through no fault of their own. But the bigger picture here is that the rule-making organizations in sports are fukking this up so bad, there are going to be wide-ranging and long-lasting repercussions.

[Primo Carnera]

it is very dangerous to go into a boxing ring with high testosterone levels

i don't disagree with your statement but what were their levels compared to their peers, if you have that information?

I’m afraid I don’t. But they were high enough to fail the AIBA Gender test, so they must be raised at the very least.
My point being that Clarity and consistency is needed with all bodies.
And my major point being ban Women’s Boxing completely.

[TitoFan]

And my major point being ban Women’s Boxing completely.

So... would that be just women's boxing?

How about:

MMA?
Karate?
Taekwondo?
Kickboxing?
Judo?
Wrestling?

[Primo Carnera]

And my major point being ban Women’s Boxing completely.

So... would that be just women's boxing?

How about:

MMA?
Karate?
Taekwondo?
Kickboxing?
Judo?
Wrestling?

I hadn’t given these sports much thought as I don’t really follow them. But………

MMA? Yes. I’d go further and ban it for men as well! Shit sport (I hesitate in calling it a sport)
Karate? No
Taekwondo? Don’t know enough about it.
Kickboxing? Yes
Judo? No
Wrestling? No

From my perspective , I don’t like the idea of women punching each other in the face or chest for that matter.
With Karate , Judo and Wrestling , there is an element of strength and technique. And you’re not trying to batter the shit out of your opponent.

[TitoFan]

And my major point being ban Women’s Boxing completely.

So... would that be just women's boxing?

How about:

MMA?
Karate?
Taekwondo?
Kickboxing?
Judo?
Wrestling?

I hadn’t given these sports much thought as I don’t really follow them. But………

MMA? Yes. I’d go further and ban it for men as well! Shit sport (I hesitate in calling it a sport)
Karate? No
Taekwondo? Don’t know enough about it.
Kickboxing? Yes
Judo? No
Wrestling? No

From my perspective , I don’t like the idea of women punching each other in the face or chest for that matter.
With Karate , Judo and Wrestling , there is an element of strength and technique. And you’re not trying to batter the shit out of your opponent.

I would ban MMA as well. Never have I followed or warmed up to it.
Any "sport" that allows someone to jump on a downed opponent and continue to whale away at his/her unconscious head... should've never been allowed to become a "sport."

[TIC]

it is very dangerous to go into a boxing ring with high testosterone levels

i don't disagree with your statement but what were their levels compared to their peers, if you have that information?

I’m afraid I don’t. But they were high enough to fail the AIBA Gender test, so they must be raised at the very least.

thanks, i guess you don't have the results of those tests & levels? i'm not sure anyone does. do you know if they failed the iba tests before an event or during? where's thomas hauser when you need an investigation done?