Rafael Espinoza-Robeisy Ramirez II ~ Oscar Valdez-Emmanuel Navarrete II ESPN 11/7

[Denilson3.0]

HOE-beisy Ramirez



That's what you call a quit.

Robeisy - The two time time Olympic gold medallist from Cuba. When I heard that he was going PRO. I thought "This is the one"

But Olympic gold medal winners these days are kinda like American Idol or X Factor winners, they get to the top in the amateurs but don't do sh*t in the pro's

Cuban fighters have always interested me due to fact that none of them get to the very top. Go and compile a list of the top 30 fighters of the last 30 years and I doubt a Cuban will be in there, Sure bk in the day, most of them didn't go pro, but even when they have, none of them have truly broke through and become a name.

IMO - They are so amateur-friendly, the professional ranks shock them. They are training in an amateur manner for 10+ years. It's hard to simply break out of that. Top Cuban boxers are so used to beating everyone they fight that some have difficulty believing it's even possible to lose.

That's the feeling I get with Robiesy. In the professional ranks, you'll have fights were your skills are not enough then it's about will and we saw on Saturday, Robisey does not have that. Just like Rigo against Loma he wimped out

I also feel with Cuban fighters like Robeisy and Rigo and others has been deprived of a lifestyle that many Americans take for granted. Nice clothes, females, good food, party money, etc. These are all things that Cubans go nuts on because they don't get that thrown at them on the island.

And, let's not forget the most important thing that most Americans take for granted: FREEDOM. You take a young man that's never had these things in large quantities and you give them more than even most Americans have...it's like having too much cake. It's hard for them to get used to the culture shock. They come from nothing but a restricted lifestyle and have to bare this until they get to the USA. It's obvious as to why some of these fighters can't handle it.

[TitoFan]

https://www.si.com/fannation/boxing/...h-01jep3d9vyna

"Robeisy Ramirez Has Orbital Fracture: Medical Examination Report Now Reveals After Espinoza Rematch"


The finish to this fight was so sudden and unexpected. I thought Robeisy was having a good start of the fight... using a great strategy to try and work Espinoza downstairs to the body. But Espinoza was coming on and was gaining momentum when the fight abruptly ended. I was as puzzled as everybody else. One of the announcers (don't remember who) was going off on Robeisy to the point of being speechless. He obviously felt Ramirez had flat out quit. Now it turns out Robeisy has an orbital bone fracture. I know we all want our boxers to be warriors and fight through injuries. But of all the injuries possibly sustained during a fight... I wonder how feasible it is for someone to fight through that kind of injury. Wasn't it Billy Joe Saunders who was cruising along against Clenelo when he suffered the same type of facial fracture? Again... not a doctor, or even an ex-fighter. But I have to wonder about this. It's sad, though. It becomes an instant blight on your career. The other announcer was pretty much pronouncing Ramirez as done for good. Wow. Not taking sides here. Just wondering out loud just how it would be if a fighter chose to fight through an orbital bone fracture. Sounds pretty dangerous, if you ask me. We were robbed of a good fight. Who knows what would've happened. Robeisy has mad skills... but Espinoza was coming on. It would've been an interesting rest of the fight.

[Denilson3.0]

Fair enough. An Orbital bone is nothing to play with. So it wasn't a quit by Robeisy.

When Kell Brook done his orbital in the Triple G fight (Or it could have been the Spence fightt), apparently they had to remove his eyeball via his mouth in order to repair the broken bone and not only did he not know if he'd ever be able to fight again but he'd been informed that he might not even be able to see out of it again.

It all depends on where Robeisy's orbital bone is fractured, how bad the fracture, how many places was it fractured. but I remember Bob Sapp's career was over after he got his orbital broken by Cro Cop.

[TitoFan]

Fair enough. An Orbital bone is nothing to play with. So it wasn't a quit by Robeisy.

When Kell Brook done his orbital in the Triple G fight (Or it could have been the Spence fightt), apparently they had to remove his eyeball via his mouth in order to repair the broken bone and not only did he not know if he'd ever be able to fight again but he'd been informed that he might not even be able to see out of it again.

It all depends on where Robeisy's orbital bone is fractured, how bad the fracture, how many places was it fractured. but I remember Bob Sapp's career was over after he got his orbital broken by Cro Cop.

Again... I'm not a doctor nor a boxer. But sizing up orbital bone fractures with other serious injuries sustained by fighters in the ring (huge cuts, broken nose, hands, etc.) it seems the orbital fracture would pose the most serious risk. Hell... it's the eye socket. Not something to screw around with.

Athletes play through injuries in other sports, as well. U.S. football is notorious for having guys go out there at less than 100% due to injuries. You can't get those guys off the field!

But back to Robeisy. Unless he had sustained that injury prior to that last punch, maybe in a previous round... that one punch by Espinoza honestly did not seem like an orbital bone busting punch for me. Not saying the elbow theory is right or anything like that. But damn... that last punch didn't seem like it would bust anything... much less an orbital bone. Again... I'm coming at this strictly as a fan. Not a doctor or anything of the sort. Maybe a previous punch did it... I don't know. Again, what is sad is that this may well truncate what seemed to be a very promising career. The kid is damn good.

[Denilson3.0]

Fair enough. An Orbital bone is nothing to play with. So it wasn't a quit by Robeisy.

When Kell Brook done his orbital in the Triple G fight (Or it could have been the Spence fightt), apparently they had to remove his eyeball via his mouth in order to repair the broken bone and not only did he not know if he'd ever be able to fight again but he'd been informed that he might not even be able to see out of it again.

It all depends on where Robeisy's orbital bone is fractured, how bad the fracture, how many places was it fractured. but I remember Bob Sapp's career was over after he got his orbital broken by Cro Cop.

Again... I'm not a doctor nor a boxer. But sizing up orbital bone fractures with other serious injuries sustained by fighters in the ring (huge cuts, broken nose, hands, etc.) it seems the orbital fracture would pose the most serious risk. Hell... it's the eye socket. Not something to screw around with.

Athletes play through injuries in other sports, as well. U.S. football is notorious for having guys go out there at less than 100% due to injuries. You can't get those guys off the field!

But back to Robeisy. Unless he had sustained that injury prior to that last punch, maybe in a previous round... that one punch by Espinoza honestly did not seem like an orbital bone busting punch for me. Not saying the elbow theory is right or anything like that. But damn... that last punch didn't seem like it would bust anything... much less an orbital bone. Again... I'm coming at this strictly as a fan. Not a doctor or anything of the sort. Maybe a previous punch did it... I don't know. Again, what is sad is that this may well truncate what seemed to be a very promising career. The kid is damn good.

If a fighter quits over an injury. I won't call them a quitter in most cases, but if I remember someone else who fought through it and succeeded, then I'm not going to rank them in the same category.

Inoue also suffered a broken orbital bone in Round 2 against Donaire and he fought for 10 rounds like a Samurai and won by UD.

Margarito, fought many rounds against Pac (a fight he was gettting beaten up in) with a caved in orbital.



Some fighters have 0 punk in them.

It's not so much that I think Inoue or Margaritio are more of a "man" than Robiesy it's more that they have the mindset that they have because they're trying to WIN the fight. They simply won't give up trying to win.

In boxing you have WARRIORS and WORRIERS

Robiesy is more of a worrier

When someone just quits because it 'aint happening for them or they are getting frustrated like Nicolas Walters and Rigondeau against Loma or even (Dare I say) Duran against Sugar Ray then that's a true quit. They were just getting schooled and though "nah, f*ck it" nor do I have problem when they are on their way to defeat and when they feel their health is at risk. EG Kell Brook against Spence or Triple G. He couldn't see, maybe his sight was on the line. No criticism

But this was a fight Robiesy was "in" Epinoza was coming on strong but Robiesy was ahead on points at the time of the stoppage. As I say I would not say Robiesy quit. But he did made a choice. I'll say that. And his choice was not to carry on.

He's in the suffering business and that's the reason I only agree with you only 60/40 on this one.

I'm sure Top Rank is more than disappointed after investing so much into Robiesy and the promotion of this fight in particular. Not sure what you can do with Robiesy now, he's a far better fighter thn his 14-3 record would suggest, but might be too dangerous for other featherweight champs to risk their title against. Let's not forget this is guy who beat Shakur to win his 2nd gold in the Rio 2016 Olympics

[Spicoli]

Finally caught a decent watch and off the top I think Espinoza was doing much better than I first gathered watching in gaps. That left hand! His left was always working, from short to long jab to turning it over into hooks and from underneath. Gave Ramirez 1st and maybe 2nd and that was it until surreal start and end in the end round. He was controlling his movement and gradually Ramirez was just giving off these odd vibes and almost fighting distracted and out of ideas. By and including the 3rd he was literally turning around looking for the ref to complain and getting caught flush in the mug for it. I can't say there was anything flagrant but you can see Espinoza is one of those gangly physical punchers up close and tbf he was directly warned as early as the 1st for turning the punch over and close with an elbow. But nothing afterwards. Ramirez was getting clipped clean in 5th and just looked adrift like he mentally hit a wall. The weird thing was his corner knew he was damaged in some regard, focused on the eye yet they and Ramirez saw fit to come out for the 6th. After the first so so left that was a wrap. I'm never too big on questioning a fighter's heart on mass but can also not imagine having the sensation of my face literally breaking and remaining calm cool and collected.

[TitoFan]

Finally caught a decent watch and off the top I think Espinoza was doing much better than I first gathered watching in gaps. That left hand! His left was always working, from short to long jab to turning it over into hooks and from underneath. Gave Ramirez 1st and maybe 2nd and that was it until surreal start and end in the end round. He was controlling his movement and gradually Ramirez was just giving off these odd vibes and almost fighting distracted and out of ideas. By and including the 3rd he was literally turning around looking for the ref to complain and getting caught flush in the mug for it. I can't say there was anything flagrant but you can see Espinoza is one of those gangly physical punchers up close and tbf he was directly warned as early as the 1st for turning the punch over and close with an elbow. But nothing afterwards. Ramirez was getting clipped clean in 5th and just looked adrift like he mentally hit a wall. The weird thing was his corner knew he was damaged in some regard, focused on the eye yet they and Ramirez saw fit to come out for the 6th. After the first so so left that was a wrap. I'm never too big on questioning a fighter's heart on mass but can also not imagine having the sensation of my face literally breaking and remaining calm cool and collected.

Some good points have been raised by you and Denilson. Yeah, the ending was kind of calm. I know if that punch had broken MY orbital bone, a few choice words would've immediately come out, plus I would very likely clutch at the injury as an immediate gut reaction. But just the words "orbital bone fracture" sound scary as hell. It's literally the socket that holds your eyeball place. I figure I'd rather have my jaw broken in two places than having to deal with a broken eye socket.

But again... good points. Espinoza WAS coming on, and it was beginning to look like a very long night for Ramirez as long as it lasted. I give Ramirez mad props because it's not easy giving away those huge height and reach advantages against someone who just comes in punching nonstop. Yet I thought Ramirez acquitted himself very well at first, going to the body consistently.

Now he's been reduced to damaged goods.