Oleksandr Usyk vs the Greats at Heavyweight

[Denilson3.0]

OK. I'll just go through a few past greats at heavyweight

Start off with Ali

Honestly ? Look. Any comparison between Usyk and Ali is simply not warranted.

Muhammed Ali best wins are prime George Foreman and Joe Frazier, that is top 10 heavyweights of all time. He also beat a very close to prime Sonny Liston, a top 10 heavyweight. There was a 14 year period between Ali winning the Lineal heavyweight title and the last time he held it

Usyk hasn't even had a 14 year career. He's only had 22 fights. For Usyk to try to compete, he’d have to beat Parker, Zhang, Bakole, Kabayel, Ituama, etc. Hell, Opetaia too probably Bivol and Beterbiev also. Ali fought literally everyone..

It would take a much more special fighter than Usyk to eclipse Ali at heavyweight. Usyk is good, but Ali does everything better than him and is simply far more talented. You know how Roy Jones was able to make elite technicians like James Toney and Bernard Hopkins look like mugs? That's that would happen to Usyk once Ali shows he's Usyk's equal in technical ability but has better stamina, faster hands, better foot speed and more power.

And I'm talking about young Ali (Cassisus Clay) not the Ali who fought Foreman or even Frazier, the Ali before the Vietnam sanction

I'm talking this Ali, the 1967 Cleveland Williams - Ali



And as a young man, Ali could fight like that, at pretty much that pace for 15 rounds.

Now, if sum1 was to say Usyk would beat the 2nd coming of Ali ? Post Vietnam ? The slower, less dancing Ali ? That's a fair argument, I still don't think Usyk would, but I'm not as certain. I'm only 70% certain that the older Ali would beat Usyk, Whereas I'm 99% certain the young Ali beats Usyk.

A young Ali was pretty much untouchable before the forced exile from boxing. Mate - I'll take it to the next level. Usyk would not even land a punch on the young Ali (Cassius Clay). Maybe if Usyk went 15 years unbeaten at World title level, we could have a discussion about it.

But it's ironic that both Uysk and Ali share a birthday and are both are six foot three inches in height, have a seventy-eight reach and their optimum fighting weight is between 215 and 220 pounds,

[Denilson3.0]

Prime Mike Tyson

This should not even be a debate.

Prime Tyson would have been a stylistic nightmare for Usyk

Prime Tyson had

1. Foot speed
2. Hand speed
3. Stamina
4. Chin
5. Knockout power in both hands

Those 5 things are an impossible list of qualities for Usyk to overcome.

To beat Mike Tyson, you had to pretty much had to kill him. You had to beat the shit outta of him, round after round. To beat Tyson. You have to be brave and stand and trade with him centre ring and not take a step back and test his heart and desire. Usyk doesn't fight like that.

But if Usyk did stand toe to toe with Prime Tyson ? He's dead. He would not have the power to hurt Tyson, nor would he have the power that Tyson would respect.

If Usyk got on his bike ? Even worse, Tyson's foot speed would catch him and kill him

Just show people this is prime Mike



And prime Tyson was (And a lotta people don't realise this and he doesn't get enough credit for this) a gym rat. Young Mike was a spartan, one of the most professional, hardest working heavyweight champs



We are talking prime Tyson, he could run a 5-minute mile, row 2000m in under 7 mins, he trained like a Triathlete.

You know what that means ? That means if Usyk was to get past 4 rounds tyson wouldn't gas like these modern day silverbacks do.

And that's the thing with Usyk, when he loses, it won't be a tactical chess match points loss, I think he'll loss very badly

Usyk is a modern day great, but an ATG ? I'm not sure

[Master]

All of us agree that Usyk would not be able to beat Ali and Tyson.

My opinion is below.

Liston - Usyk by UD after working out how to get away from the Liston jab.
Ali - Ali by UD after working out the southpaw stance.
Frazier- Usyk SD after overcoming Smokin Frazier attacks with the left hooks.
Foreman - Usyk by UD bewildering slow George who will be hitting the air.
Holmes - Holmes by UD who will dominate with his jab and aggression.
Tyson - KO5 styles mean that Usyk would get hurt when he was counter punching.
Holyfield - Evander by SD pre Bowe 1, after Usyk by SD.
Bowe - Riddick by UD as Usyk could not get past that beautiful jab.
Lennox - Lennox KO 9 after bullying and brutalising Usyk.
Wlad - Usyk SD after Wlad is warned about his holding.

This is not to say that Usyk is a greater Heavyweight than the champions he beat above or worse than the ones he loses. You can only be the best in your generation which he is.

Usyk has had a long and successful amateur career. He unified the cruiserweight division beating champions in their home country. What he does at heavyweight is the icing on the cake (and the most lucrative) part of his boxing career.

[X]

Let’s go a bit more old school, to surprise those who think heavyweight boxing began in the 1960’s …..

Primo Carnera - Usyk handily outboxes the giant in a surprisingly good fight

Jack Dempsey - Dempsey’s viciousness and disregard for any of the rules discombobulates the ultra technical Usyk, who is caught in a whirlwind, taking a fearful beating and being stopped in the 5th

Jack Johnson - Usyk meets his technical match, the bout descends into a snooze fest of jabbing and clinching before ending in a disputed decision for Usyk that both fighters think they won, and the crowd who just want to get out of there

Bob Fitzsimmons - too small for Usyk, who toys with him and does as he pleases before closing the show after an accumulation of big shots in the 12th

Joe Louis - Usyk is the latest Bum of the Month to find out how mercilessly efficient Louis is in there. Joe doesn’t fall for any of the feints or tricks, he has seen them all before. Louis takes the centre of the ring and stalks Usyk, getting inside and landing short hard punches to the body. He breaks Usyk down and closes the show in the 7th with a blistering uppercut left hook combination.

James J Corbett - the rangy Gentleman Jim surprises Usyk but deftly timing and countering him, while building up a big points lead in the first half of the fight. Usyk changes his game plan in the 9th and starts to cut off the ring and not give Corbett a second to rest. His superior conditioning allows him to keep up a fierce pace against the visibly flagging Corbett who is pulled out by his corner after 12 rounds

John L Sullivan - opts to make the bout bare knuckle and not gloved. He opens up by roughing Usyk up on the inside and throwing his to the ground continually. Usyk get a second wind after the 8th, but he breaks his hand and John L takes full advantage, handing out a career limiting beating to the game Ukrainian.

James Figg - confuses Usyk by arriving and fighting with a short sword. Usyk shows great defence and movement to avoid the increasingly aggressive Figg. Despite a regular intake of brandy between rounds, Figg remains sober enough to finally catch Usyk and decapitate him while the referee was separating them from a clinch.

Ugg the Stone Age caveman. Causes mayhem at the weigh in by jumping out of a tree and attacking Usyk with a rock (a tactic later copied by Cassius Clay). At the fight, Ugg loses points for beating his chest and pointing his arse at Usyk. Usyk gamely tries to stay disciplined but become disheartened when Ugg bites his finger off in the third. A wild melee breaks out and the fight is called off after Ugg sucks Usyk’s eyeball out.

[Denilson3.0]

Joe Frazier.

Usyk would lose. Any relentless pressure fighter is going to bother a technician with limited power. Usyk has never fought a very hard hitting swarmer like Frazier that would be constantly on him for the entire duration of the fight and has the cardio levels to live with him in the 2nd half of the fight

Frazier is one of the few Heavyweights who could keep up with Usyk's workrate and gets stronger as the fight goes on and has some of the best stamina of all time for a Heavyweight. Frazier literrally had a bottomless tank.

Styles make fights an elite swarmer is always a tough style match up for a boxer unless he has stand out power to stop the swarmer coming forward which Usyk does not have.

And to the judges and the crowd the fight will also look like Frazier is the boss in there with him eating Usyk's weak punches with a giant grin on his face as he marches forward. Usyk would not have the power to make Frazier think and reset. Frazier would just keep coming and coming and coming and everything Frazier throws is gonna be felt, whether it lands, is blocked

Usyk likes space. But he would'nt have had pop in his punches to make Frazier give him that. Frazier would have been hiting Usyk on the hip, the arms, wherever there's target. He would have gave Usyk a full-blown dose of what Fury promised. The Ukrainian would be forced to fight on disagreeable terms.

Put it this way, it's agreed by most that a front foot pressure fighter called Derek Chisora came the closest to beating Usyk and Joe Frazier (also a front foot pressure fighter) is in another galaxy to Chisora, then Usyk Vs Frazier is only gonna go one way.

Honestly ? Usyk - Frazier is the type fight were Usyk would never be the same man again.

[Denilson3.0]

George Foreman

Usyk isn't beating young Slugger Foreman.

Ali didn't "Rope-a-Dope" because it was a strategy, it's because he realized he couldn't run away. If Ali can't, Usyk can't. Slugger Foreman would cut off the ring and throw everything he had at Usyk. First body shot from a prime Foreman would not see Usyk getting up.



You think a guy like Usyk, who is known for not taken a good body shot could take that ?

Cmon...let's get real.

And he's never TKOing Foreman His chin was granite being knocked out once and fighting till his Mid 40s.....Prime Foreman by Murder.!!!

[Denilson3.0]

Riddick Bowe

Usyk is the massive overachiever while Bowe was the massive underachiever.

So this would be great match up.

If Chisora and Briedis can give Usyk headaches with their styles, I have no doubt that Riddick Bowe would not have any problem bettering their efforts by some distance. Usyk hates taking a bodyshot, Bowe loves giving a bodyshot, Usyk hates taking a uppercut, Bowe loves giving a uppercut. This is an incredibly tall order for Usyk.

I do see Uysk winning a couple of rounds there and there but Bowe (1992) is just too complete for Usyk and would get the late TKO or UD. However, I do give the edge to Usyk from 1995-96 against Bowe from the Golota fights as Bowe was a shell of the fighter from those 1992 days

But Bowe 92 ? Would control the center of the ring with his jab and land vicious uppercuts on the inside.

This would be a difficult fight for Usyk as Bowe is not just a big man but a big man with skills who knows what to do especially with the jab, uppercut, combinations and inside. Bowe beats Usyk, just like he beat Holyfield. Holyfield is every bit as skilled as Usyk, and hits harder and Bowe walked through him, I'd bet he would do the same with Usyk who hits like a girl (actually that's disrespectful and sexist let's just say Usyk is not a big enough puncher to hurt most big heavyweights)

[Master]

Foreman was slow in the clips you showed. He had power but if you can not land it does not matter. George was over reliant on that power and later developed the jab and pacing himself when he came out of retirement.

Usyk has himself said he would love to have fought prime Foreman because it would give him a challenge. Usyk is a wizard in the ring.

Bowe was superb when he fought Holyfield in their first fight. He knew how to use his reach and height and agree with you that would have been too difficult to Ukrainian.