Top Ten Heavyweights of All Time

[Mark TKO]

Get what you're saying but 38 back then was much older than it is now if you in turn get what what I'm saying.

In many sports you're seeing athletes competing into late thirties and beyond.

"oh my god he's won the title back at 32" or words to that effect said by Harry carpenter when Ali kayoed foreman.

[TIC]

Get what you're saying but 38 back then was much older than it is now if you in turn get what what I'm saying.

In many sports you're seeing athletes competing into late thirties and beyond.

"oh my god he's won the title back at 32" or words to that effect said by Harry carpenter when Ali kayoed foreman.

i get what you're saying, also need to consider some of these older fighters were fight fifteen or more rounds & fighting multiple times a year. if someone fights four times a year now we are amazed at the activity

[Master]

I am a big Evander Holyfield fan and therefore can critically analyse his career in terms of being a top 10 heavyweight champion for this thread.

I will not be critical of his wins against unmotivated Buster Douglas, getting knocked down by Bert Cooper or defending his titles against “old” Holmes or Foreman and hollow Tyson.

I will be critical against losing twice to Bowe, weak chinned Moorer and Lennox Lewis during his best years as heavyweight champion. That should not make the top 10 list, far too many inconsistent fights to be in the top 10.

[TitoFan]

Get what you're saying but 38 back then was much older than it is now if you in turn get what what I'm saying.

In many sports you're seeing athletes competing into late thirties and beyond.

"oh my god he's won the title back at 32" or words to that effect said by Harry carpenter when Ali kayoed foreman.

"Whiny" Holmes beat an undefeated (and heavily favored) Ray Mercer a full four years after having been KO'ed by Tyson.

He couldn't have been THAT washed up and "old" when he fought Tyson.

He just got obliterated, a knockout I happily played over and over many times.

[Master]

I do not want to continue to pick apart Holyfield heavyweight career as champion but when he beat an "old" and "whiny" Holmes, Larry said he was strong but not that skilled compared to the fighters he fought when he was at his peak.

This implied that he would have beaten Evander as was not as good as some of the boxers he faced when he was champion. Holyfield relied on his fitness, activity and conditioning to beat his opponents but he could be out boxed by Bowe, Moorer and Lewis. Usyk would have that chance at heavyweight less so at cruiserweight.

Incidentally @Spicoli, Mercer was dumb for falling into the traps that Holmes set him when he lost to him. Also Mercer beat Morrison should not mean that much of a victory when Tommy was going to get knocked out in a round by Bent.

[TIC]

do lennox next, should have been dq'd against mike acey & the oliver rematch should have really been a no contest, two knockout losses when he was at or near his prime

[TitoFan]

Oh but Lennox destroying Rahman after getting called gay on TV was sweet.

[Mark TKO]

do lennox next, should have been dq'd against mike acey & the oliver rematch should have really been a no contest, two knockout losses when he was at or near his prime

He was very slack with Rahman. In hindsight it's baffling that he was so ill prepared for that fight and pissing about filming oceans 11 the week before.

The Mccall knock out was lucky and Lewis should have been allowed to continue. Odds were against him surviving that round but a champion on his feet should be given the chance.

[TIC]

do lennox next, should have been dq'd against mike acey & the oliver rematch should have really been a no contest, two knockout losses when he was at or near his prime

He was very slack with Rahman. In hindsight it's baffling that he was so ill prepared for that fight and pissing about filming oceans 11 the week before.

The Mccall knock out was lucky

no excuses once you're in that ring

the only thing lucky was lennox when the ref saved him. his career could have been severely altered had it continued

[Mark TKO]

do lennox next, should have been dq'd against mike acey & the oliver rematch should have really been a no contest, two knockout losses when he was at or near his prime

He was very slack with Rahman. In hindsight it's baffling that he was so ill prepared for that fight and pissing about filming oceans 11 the week before.

The Mccall knock out was lucky

no excuses once you're in that ring

the only thing lucky was lennox when the ref saved him. his career could have been severely altered had it continued

disagree he was a champion on his feet. Give him the chance

[Spicoli]

I do not want to continue to pick apart Holyfield heavyweight career as champion but when he beat an "old" and "whiny" Holmes, Larry said he was strong but not that skilled compared to the fighters he fought when he was at his peak.

This implied that he would have beaten Evander as was not as good as some of the boxers he faced when he was champion. Holyfield relied on his fitness, activity and conditioning to beat his opponents but he could be out boxed by Bowe, Moorer and Lewis. Usyk would have that chance at heavyweight less so at cruiserweight.

Incidentally @Spicoli, Mercer was dumb for falling into the traps that Holmes set him when he lost to him. Also Mercer beat Morrison should not mean that much of a victory when Tommy was going to get knocked out in a round by Bent.

I mean it's Larry Holmes, what do we expect him to say when discussing himself from the holy mount of Sir Larry . Absolutely no idea about hypotheticals but a former champ can have plenty of opinion on competition over the decades. But I struggle to see a tip top Holyfield being in awe or not measuring up as "good" as a Norton, Witherspoon or Shavers. Let alone a Scott Ledoux, Tex Cobb or David Bey . No secret Holyfield was no friend of a steady mobile jab. Bowe sat in, swapped and even Lewis sat in and exchanged when he had to especially in rematch where their jabs were fairly even up. No one, save for Lewis I tbh, was really boxing top Holyfield's ears without getting sucked into exchanges, taking a wobble or dropped in order to maintain ring real estate. That's what happens when the very best face one another, multiple times.

Wouldn't say Mercer was dumb. Outfoxed, outboxed and out experienced vs Holmes, absolutely. His biggest mistake along with so many fans pre Holmes was believing his own headlines and savagery fresh off beating Morrison literally senseless and damn near fatal. It was assumed by mass majority all he had to do was attack and overwhelm an aged 'old whiny' Holmes and Holmes would get ground down and cave. Ironically Mercers best moment was very early on when he was jabbing with Holmes and hurt him badly. Mercer always had a killer short power jab when it was on and his head was in it. The Morrison fight is a good example of Ray being far more than just a iron chinned tank. The man could box and he though it was 4,5 rounds he was setting traps for young all offence Morrison from the very start. You could see it, and Ray knew it. To this day people saw that fight and said it was Morrison outboxing Mercer...I never saw that. Exact opposite really. You say the win didn't mean much buuut it did mean enough to win him a championship. Which seems to be the most important factor in ranking ATG heavy's for some . It also would help propel Mercer, regardless of Holmes, into two superb fights/wars with both Lewis and Holyfield. Back to back. And sure Morrison got iced by Bentt a couple years later...but that didn't stop Lewis from facing such a 'used up' fighter another two years later. The irony is that it was after Lewis was splattered by McCall and during his own 'rebuild'. That's the thing about 'what ifs' and a magnifying glass put on records. It's an across the board thing fans do. But at some points it becomes tearing into the very same fighters we rank as the very best or ATG. Round and round it goes.

and btw Holyfield beat Mercer cleaner and wider than Lewis

[X]

Louis
Ali
Johnson
Dempsey
Foreman
Liston
Lewis
Usyk (hopefully not me showing recency bias there)
Frazier
Marciano

Honourable mentions to Tyson, Jeffries, Holmes too

[Master]

I do not want to continue to pick apart Holyfield heavyweight career as champion but when he beat an "old" and "whiny" Holmes, Larry said he was strong but not that skilled compared to the fighters he fought when he was at his peak.

This implied that he would have beaten Evander as was not as good as some of the boxers he faced when he was champion. Holyfield relied on his fitness, activity and conditioning to beat his opponents but he could be out boxed by Bowe, Moorer and Lewis. Usyk would have that chance at heavyweight less so at cruiserweight.

Incidentally @Spicoli, Mercer was dumb for falling into the traps that Holmes set him when he lost to him. Also Mercer beat Morrison should not mean that much of a victory when Tommy was going to get knocked out in a round by Bent.

I mean it's Larry Holmes, what do we expect him to say when discussing himself from the holy mount of Sir Larry . Absolutely no idea about hypotheticals but a former champ can have plenty of opinion on competition over the decades. But I struggle to see a tip top Holyfield being in awe or not measuring up as "good" as a Norton, Witherspoon or Shavers. Let alone a Scott Ledoux, Tex Cobb or David Bey . No secret Holyfield was no friend of a steady mobile jab. Bowe sat in, swapped and even Lewis sat in and exchanged when he had to especially in rematch where their jabs were fairly even up. No one, save for Lewis I tbh, was really boxing top Holyfield's ears without getting sucked into exchanges, taking a wobble or dropped in order to maintain ring real estate. That's what happens when the very best face one another, multiple times.

Conversely, prime Larry Holmes would not struggle with poor man’s Frazier in Bert Cooper or an old Foreman.

Larry would beat an overweight Buster but arguably would not lose to Bowe or Moorer.

Lennox Lewis which is a “pick em”.

[Spicoli]

I do not want to continue to pick apart Holyfield heavyweight career as champion but when he beat an "old" and "whiny" Holmes, Larry said he was strong but not that skilled compared to the fighters he fought when he was at his peak.

This implied that he would have beaten Evander as was not as good as some of the boxers he faced when he was champion. Holyfield relied on his fitness, activity and conditioning to beat his opponents but he could be out boxed by Bowe, Moorer and Lewis. Usyk would have that chance at heavyweight less so at cruiserweight.

Incidentally @Spicoli, Mercer was dumb for falling into the traps that Holmes set him when he lost to him. Also Mercer beat Morrison should not mean that much of a victory when Tommy was going to get knocked out in a round by Bent.

I mean it's Larry Holmes, what do we expect him to say when discussing himself from the holy mount of Sir Larry . Absolutely no idea about hypotheticals but a former champ can have plenty of opinion on competition over the decades. But I struggle to see a tip top Holyfield being in awe or not measuring up as "good" as a Norton, Witherspoon or Shavers. Let alone a Scott Ledoux, Tex Cobb or David Bey . No secret Holyfield was no friend of a steady mobile jab. Bowe sat in, swapped and even Lewis sat in and exchanged when he had to especially in rematch where their jabs were fairly even up. No one, save for Lewis I tbh, was really boxing top Holyfield's ears without getting sucked into exchanges, taking a wobble or dropped in order to maintain ring real estate. That's what happens when the very best face one another, multiple times.

Conversely, prime Larry Holmes would not struggle with poor man’s Frazier in Bert Cooper or an old Foreman.

Larry would beat an overweight Buster but arguably would not lose to Bowe or Moorer.

Lennox Lewis which is a “pick em”.

There was no struggle. There was 1-2 punch sandwiched between an arse whipping. Show me a heavy who has never come back from being hurt and I'll show you one who really has yet to learn much. I actually think top Bowe and Lewis could give any version of Holmes a helluva night. More so Bowe believe it or not, who looked to have slightly faster hands than Lennox, more fluid in combination imo, and had more than a few similarities than say a Williams or Witherspoon. The long rapid jab and Holmes knack for taking follow up right hands in some rough spots. Unlike Williams Bowe in top form was a very solid inside fighter in combination punching. Would have been a great style mash up. It's odd thinking about it now...Bowe always fancied himself an Ali impersonator and would play that up. But in style I would always see more Holmes if anything. As far as off the jab and longer shots and whips to the body. Now mentally and the times Holmes had to get off the deck and come back from being rattled...his ability to dig deep late round, big edge goes to Holmes.

And being honest. 'old' Foreman was in some ways better than the first version. That mental composure and grown man attitude would have done miracles for young surly aloof George. If only we saw that blend, but time does that to us all.