Who was the greatest heavyweight: JOE LOUIS or MUHAMMAD ALI

[El Kabong]

Joe Louis....25 successful title defenses....best ever!

Ali did very well but I have him at 3rd....I have Rocky Marciano at #2 because he was undefeated...say what you will about who he fought....HE NEVER LOST

Nor did Sven Ottke

...and there are many reports that Marciano did lose and that the fight was stricken from the record (ask BK )

Yes but Svenn didn't fight the best challengers in his division now did he?

Louis was mighty good at chasing people down SweetPea, that's what he did

[Jody Lane]

If you like Ali and think he's the Greatest just because it's everyone else's opinion then you're an idiot....if you are knowledgeable enough to prove in a debate why he's the greatest of all time then I respect your opinion.

And ignorance shows when people say things like "Joe Louis couldn't beat Sonny Liston"....prime for prime Joe Louis would have made Liston look SILLY

Your ignorance is that you can't even acknowledge that Liston was a superior version of Louis... He was way stronger, and just as good of a boxer.

I doubt that Liston was a superior version of Louis. Louis was by accounts, faster and relied less on scaring the shit out of his opponents than just plain beating the shit out of them. In his rematch with Schmeling, who had knocked Louis out, Schmeling had no fears and was destroyed in a little over two minutes.

[El Kabong]

Sonny Liston was not as good as Joe Louis they should even be compared....Sonny was flat footed not because he was always in position but because he had heavy feet.

Joe Louis knew how to cut off the ring, he could move well when needed, he had power in both hands, he didn't fight scared like Liston did either. When Liston lost he was beat mentally and physically and Louis got beat when his body broke down from age and once when he was on the way up when he looked past Max Schmelling.

Taeth, you're free to like Ali all you want to but goddamnit Joe Louis was a Great boxer and he wasn't bested in any way shape or form by Sonny Liston

[Punisher136]

If you like Ali and think he's the Greatest just because it's everyone else's opinion then you're an idiot....if you are knowledgeable enough to prove in a debate why he's the greatest of all time then I respect your opinion.

And ignorance shows when people say things like "Joe Louis couldn't beat Sonny Liston"....prime for prime Joe Louis would have made Liston look SILLY

I picked ali for the following reasons:

Despite being bigger than most of his opponents, he still moved like he was half their size.
He had one of the nastiest jabs in boxing.
He could move at a quick pace around the ring (mostly circling to the left) and not get tired while doing it.
When someone did get inside on ali he had a great chin and covered up his body well so he never got hurt.
In ali/liston I, liston throws a 5 punch combo (maybe 4 because the tape i have of it is alittle choppy) and none of them land clean while ali is pinned near the ropes.
What he lacked in power he made up for by picking his punches well.
Everyone knows who he is. That has nothing to do with greatness in the ring but i think being well known is a good gauge of success too, unless you become famous for going to jail etc.
He had speed and he knew how to use it. He'd think nothing of dropping a 5 punch flurry on someone. Look at Ali/London (the first fight if there were two of them) The flurry that drops london in round 3 is unbelieveable. I've never seen a combo thrown that fast b4 or since.

I probably tend to favor Ali in any question (aside from marciano) because the first boxing match i ever saw (outside of the rocky movies but those dont really count) was ali/chuvalo I and i knew who ali was but i never saw him box. I didn't think it was possible for a human being to move around like that for an hour str8 and still be standing unwinded in round 8. Thats the fight that made me get into boxing.

[undefeated]

If you like Ali and think he's the Greatest just because it's everyone else's opinion then you're an idiot....if you are knowledgeable enough to prove in a debate why he's the greatest of all time then I respect your opinion.

And ignorance shows when people say things like "Joe Louis couldn't beat Sonny Liston"....prime for prime Joe Louis would have made Liston look SILLY

I picked ali for the following reasons:

Despite being bigger than most of his opponents, he still moved like he was half their size.
He had one of the nastiest jabs in boxing.
He could move at a quick pace around the ring (mostly circling to the left) and not get tired while doing it.
When someone did get inside on ali he had a great chin and covered up his body well so he never got hurt.
In ali/liston I, liston throws a 5 punch combo (maybe 4 because the tape i have of it is alittle choppy) and none of them land clean while ali is pinned near the ropes.
What he lacked in power he made up for by picking his punches well.
Everyone knows who he is. That has nothing to do with greatness in the ring but i think being well known is a good gauge of success too, unless you become famous for going to jail etc.
He had speed and he knew how to use it. He'd think nothing of dropping a 5 punch flurry on someone. Look at Ali/London (the first fight if there were two of them) The flurry that drops london in round 3 is unbelieveable. I've never seen a combo thrown that fast b4 or since.

I probably tend to favor Ali in any question (aside from marciano) because the first boxing match i ever saw (outside of the rocky movies but those dont really count) was ali/chuvalo I and i knew who ali was but i never saw him box. I didn't think it was possible for a human being to move around like that for an hour str8 and still be standing unwinded in round 8. Thats the fight that made me get into boxing.

fight that made me a boxing fan was ali-quarry 1-i was scared seeing a boxing match--and ali was talking sh** b4 the fight i was that guy is scary. now hes my hero

[El Kabong]

All I have to say is the destruction of Max Schmelling cements Joe Louis as the best ever....WOW I mean you talk about a man on a mission he nearly broke Schmelling in two!!!!

No other power punchers past 1950 ever beat a guy like that

Jack Johnson-Stanley Ketchel
Jack Dempsey-Jess Willard

Those are the only ones I can think of where the Champ just battered and nearly killed the guy he fought.



Mike Tyson had spectacular KO's but nothing comes close to those, those make his KO of Lou Savarese look like it was done by a 4 year old.

Johnson nailed Ketchel and then wiped Stan's teeth off his glove

Dempsey had holes in Willard's face and had basically broken his whole face

Louis broke Max Shmelling's ribs and I have heard his vertebrae as well....he nearly killed the guy

[stavros693000]

what about TYSON -BERBICK or FOREMAN -FRAIZER ....tyson and foreman crushed the champ inside 2

[El Kabong]

Foreman's KO of Frazier whilst very impressive, didn't leave any physical marks on Frazier and didn't make him bleed and didn't hurt him enough for Frazier to stay down for a 10 count


Tyson-Berbick....it's not worth a mention, yeah Trevor flopped around like a fish but there was no blood and no physical damage for the audience to view.


Imagine sitting back watching Jess Willard spit blood out of holes in his cheeks from Jack Dempsey's punches

[stavros693000]

Foreman's KO of Frazier whilst very impressive, didn't leave any physical marks on Frazier and didn't make him bleed and didn't hurt him enough for Frazier to stay down for a 10 count


Tyson-Berbick....it's not wotrth a mention, yeah Trevor flopped around like a fish but there was no blood and no physical damage for the audience to view.


Imagine sitting back watching Jess Willard spit blood out of holes in his cheeks from Jack Dempsey's punches

how did he get holes in his cheeks? was dempseys gloves loaded with nails or something!
but it would be pretty sickening to watch

[El Kabong]

.....supposedly it was just the lack of a good mouthpeice and Dempsey's raw power but it was alleged that Dempsey had a railroad spike in the thumb of his glove.