Open Scoring

[Punisher136]

Maybe i just want reform and will accept it anyway it comes. I think it needs to start with the alphabet belts tho and all the other problems will disappear.

[Lords Gym]

If you going to have open scoring , it needs to be every round, so you can make the proper adjustments. finding out you have lost every round in the middle of the fight does no good. . I think the fights could be closer and more competitive if the scores were announced after each round. along with judges name that scored it could help police those crocked SOB's !

[TheBESTP4P]

i think if your gonna have open scoring its ONLY FAIR if u have OPEN BRAS on RING CARD GIRLS as well. u cant have it only one way fellas come on.

[Tito BHB]

I am against this . In the taylor ouma fight , I just felt real sorry for Ouma every time the scores were anounced. it totally discouraged him. Taylor also slacked at the end of the fight cuz he knew he is way ahead. There is no suspense

I completely agree with you..
I think the idea of it is simply quite thoughtless.. They must know how badly that can discourage a fighter and your right its a real suspense killer.. Is it just hbo doing this or is it showtime or anyone else?
could be a bit of a ratings killer.. Cos i would start getting miffed if this is a permanent fixture in future fights!
Peace

[shza]

I am against this . In the taylor ouma fight , I just felt real sorry for Ouma every time the scores were anounced. it totally discouraged him. Taylor also slacked at the end of the fight cuz he knew he is way ahead. There is no suspense

I completely agree with you..
I think the idea of it is simply quite thoughtless.. They must know how badly that can discourage a fighter and your right its a real suspense killer.. Is it just hbo doing this or is it showtime or anyone else?
could be a bit of a ratings killer.. Cos i would start getting miffed if this is a permanent fixture in future fights!
Peace

It's not HBO or Showtime doing it--it's the WBA. There are valid points on both sides, but this "don't do it because it can discourage a fighter" thing just seems silly. Should we stop showing the score in basketball games because dwayne wade might get "discouraged" if the heat are losing? If these guys are that mentally fragile, they don't belong in sports.

I found it quite pointed that the one actual boxer they had commentating during this--Lennox Lewis--said that he would definitely want open scoring, so he could know how well he was doing and know he needed to step it up if he was behind in a close fight.

[gyrokai]

I am against this . In the taylor ouma fight , I just felt real sorry for Ouma every time the scores were anounced. it totally discouraged him. Taylor also slacked at the end of the fight cuz he knew he is way ahead. There is no suspense

I completely agree with you..
I think the idea of it is simply quite thoughtless.. They must know how badly that can discourage a fighter and your right its a real suspense killer.. Is it just hbo doing this or is it showtime or anyone else?
could be a bit of a ratings killer.. Cos i would start getting miffed if this is a permanent fixture in future fights!
Peace

It's not HBO or Showtime doing it--it's the WBA. There are valid points on both sides, but this "don't do it because it can discourage a fighter" thing just seems silly. Should we stop showing the score in basketball games because dwayne wade might get "discouraged" if the heat are losing? If these guys are that mentally fragile, they don't belong in sports.

I found it quite pointed that the one actual boxer they had commentating during this--Lennox Lewis--said that he would definitely want open scoring, so he could know how well he was doing and know he needed to step it up if he was behind in a close fight.

The next person that compares Basketball to Boxing... this is becoming a trend here lately.... but the next person, I'm going to stamp as an idiot.

AND OOFFF COURSSSEEE!!!! Of course Lennix wants it! Did you see how Boooorrrriiinggg and SAFE he was throughout his career? ?!!!!!!!!!!!! Boring and Safe WAS his career. There were some exceptions, but Lennox was perfectly fine going on his backfoot, "running away" so to speak, and sit behind on that jab all night long.

Had he KNOWN the cards, he would sit behind that jab all night long (and hug & hold)! Hardly EVER going for the knockout or mixing up his arsenal.

Alright man. Have you seen boxers run and jump their way a victory? They raise their hands up and run away, kinda like a small-jump with both legs, ... I see it all the time in the last round. Imaging that, AND HUGGING, for 4 OR MORE rounds, because a guy wants to win on points and knows his points. It's no longer Prize fighting, it's boring as hell fighting.

There is a reason why boxing makes so much money, because it's so compelling and dramatic, as compared to many other combat sports (not including the new mma trend). And the reason it's compelling is they FIGHT!!! Fighting brings in the $$$$$$.

[shza]

I am against this . In the taylor ouma fight , I just felt real sorry for Ouma every time the scores were anounced. it totally discouraged him. Taylor also slacked at the end of the fight cuz he knew he is way ahead. There is no suspense

I completely agree with you..
I think the idea of it is simply quite thoughtless.. They must know how badly that can discourage a fighter and your right its a real suspense killer.. Is it just hbo doing this or is it showtime or anyone else?
could be a bit of a ratings killer.. Cos i would start getting miffed if this is a permanent fixture in future fights!
Peace

It's not HBO or Showtime doing it--it's the WBA. There are valid points on both sides, but this "don't do it because it can discourage a fighter" thing just seems silly. Should we stop showing the score in basketball games because dwayne wade might get "discouraged" if the heat are losing? If these guys are that mentally fragile, they don't belong in sports.

I found it quite pointed that the one actual boxer they had commentating during this--Lennox Lewis--said that he would definitely want open scoring, so he could know how well he was doing and know he needed to step it up if he was behind in a close fight.

The next person that compares Basketball to Boxing... this is becoming a trend here lately.... but the next person, I'm going to stamp as an idiot.

AND OOFFF COURSSSEEE!!!! Of course Lennix wants it! Did you see how Boooorrrriiinggg and SAFE he was throughout his career? ?!!!!!!!!!!!! Boring and Safe WAS his career. There were some exceptions, but Lennox was perfectly fine going on his backfoot, "running away" so to speak, and sit behind on that jab all night long.

Had he KNOWN the cards, he would sit behind that jab all night long (and hug & hold)! Hardly EVER going for the knockout or mixing up his arsenal.

Alright man. Have you seen boxers run and jump their way a victory? They raise their hands up and run away, kinda like a small-jump with both legs, ... I see it all the time in the last round. Imaging that, AND HUGGING, for 4 OR MORE rounds, because a guy wants to win on points and knows his points. It's no longer Prize fighting, it's boring as hell fighting.

There is a reason why boxing makes so much money, because it's so compelling and dramatic, as compared to many other combat sports (not including the new mma trend). And the reason it's compelling is they FIGHT!!! Fighting brings in the $$$$$$.

You're addressing only the situation of the fighter who finds he is ahead on points, and ignoring the situation of the fighter who finds he is actually losing a fight he though he was winning. The result of that isn't going to be a bunch of holding and running--it's going to be someone seriously stepping it up. I think, for example, the first Hopkins-Taylor fight would have been much less boring if Hopkins knew he had lost all of the first four rounds and actually had his 20-defense streak to worry about. Or let's take someone who is the farthest thing from "boring and safe": don't you think a very close manny pacquiao fight would be even better if pacman finds that he has to either win every single remaining round or get a KO (or at least multiple KDs) in order to win?

As to basketball/football comparisons, you'll note that I used it only in one specific way: to point out the complete silliness of worrying about a fighter's "getting discouraged" by knowing the score. I think it's a completely valid analogy to draw with respect to that point. With respect to others, obviously the analogy doesn't extend too far, because the scoring rules for football, basketball, etc., are so clear that there can be no question of who's winning, even if the score is not announced. You can keep track of how many touchdowns and field goals you've scored and know whether your winning or not; keeping track of how many punches you've landed doesn't necessarily tell you anything.

[gyrokai]

Aghh, whatever, you guys will never be convinced that your wrong.

Keep in mind, this is PRIZE FIGHTING.

[gyrokai]

Okay, re-read your argument, and you sound like a reasonable guy... so here we go.


In 1999, Showtime used open scorecards for a couple of matches.

One of them was Mark Johnson, he was ahead... what did he do..... he raaaaannn away the last four rounds.

Okay... one example. Lets have another.

During that time Sharmba Mitchell was going to do the open cards too...

What did he do when he found he was ahead? You guessed it. He RAAAAAANNN!!!

This is not new either, years ago, my great Hero did it too?
You want to guess who that is?

MUHAMMAD ALI He did the exact same thing, Angelo Dundee, being the smart trainer that he is, had a guy, part of the corner, keep an eye on the television Open Scores as the fight was going on. So Angelo and Ali would know which rounds to take off and which to win... can you guess how it ended? ... ? .... ? .... ? Ali won by decision on a looooonnng night.


I HAVE MY examples and evidence. Do you have yours?

[gyrokai]

Keep in mind, when these fighters run... it's BOOOOORRRING AS HELL. Who's going to want to see these matches. haha If anything, people will leave by the eighth round LIKE basketball, and that's just plain stupid for a boxing match... because with the scores being unknown and the fighters fighting for the UNKNOWN score cards.... there is drama in the closing championship rounds and the cards are unvealed afterwards.

This is PRIZEFIGHTING, you WANT them to FIGHT.... WE PAY for it. I do. I don't think many fans get this prizefighting deal. You have to go to Vegas to understand I believe. We Pay to keep the sport alive. Are you going to keep paying, or lets bet..... are you going to buy ringside seats to a fighter that runs the last 4 rounds? ?? It will be a common occurance.

It does happen in certain Amatuer Competitions where they have "open scoring" .... where they RUN.. oh, yes THEY do RUN!

[shza]

Okay, re-read your argument, and you sound like a reasonable guy... so here we go.


In 1999, Showtime used open scorecards for a couple of matches.

One of them was Mark Johnson, he was ahead... what did he do..... he raaaaannn away the last four rounds.

Okay... one example. Lets have another.

During that time Sharmba Mitchell was going to do the open cards too...

What did he do when he found he was ahead? You guessed it. He RAAAAAANNN!!!

This is not new either, years ago, my great Hero did it too?
You want to guess who that is?

MUHAMMAD ALI He did the exact same thing, Angelo Dundee, being the smart trainer that he is, had a guy, part of the corner, keep an eye on the television Open Scores as the fight was going on. So Angelo and Ali would know which rounds to take off and which to win... can you guess how it ended? ... ? .... ? .... ? Ali won by decision on a looooonnng night.


I HAVE MY examples and evidence. Do you have yours?

Look, I don't have an especially strong opinion about this. I spoke up in the first place because I thought that raising fighters' potential "discouragement" as the reason not to have open scoring was ridiculous. I'm not surprised you can point to examples of fighters running when they're ahead. It happens even without open scoring when it's clear enough that one guy has a big lead, and it would happen even more under open scoring. I'm just pointing out that there is an upside too--in close fights, the guy who finds he's losing will fight harder. I pointed out Taylor-Hopkins I as one example of where open scoring might have made a fight better, and I can remember watching the Sam Peter robbery against James Toney and thinking that it didn't sound too crazy when Freddy Roach was advocating for open scoring afterward. I don't think Sam Peter would have started running, and I think James Toney would have ended up outlanding Peter by even more than he already did in the fight as a result.

So for me, the question is going to be answered by determining whether there are more (a) big fights that are wide enough to be foregone conclusions by the end of the 8th round (and where the losing fighter doesn't have 1-punch KO power) or (b) big fights that are actually closer on the cards than the fighters believe the fight is. If it's (a), then agreed--open scoring is bad for the sport; if it's (b), then it would be on-balance good for the sport. I don't have statistics on this so I really don't know what the answer is.

[gyrokai]

Okay, re-read your argument, and you sound like a reasonable guy... so here we go.


In 1999, Showtime used open scorecards for a couple of matches.

One of them was Mark Johnson, he was ahead... what did he do..... he raaaaannn away the last four rounds.

Okay... one example. Lets have another.

During that time Sharmba Mitchell was going to do the open cards too...

What did he do when he found he was ahead? You guessed it. He RAAAAAANNN!!!

This is not new either, years ago, my great Hero did it too?
You want to guess who that is?

MUHAMMAD ALI He did the exact same thing, Angelo Dundee, being the smart trainer that he is, had a guy, part of the corner, keep an eye on the television Open Scores as the fight was going on. So Angelo and Ali would know which rounds to take off and which to win... can you guess how it ended? ... ? .... ? .... ? Ali won by decision on a looooonnng night.


I HAVE MY examples and evidence. Do you have yours?

Look, I don't have an especially strong opinion about this. I spoke up in the first place because I thought that raising fighters' potential "discouragement" as the reason not to have open scoring was ridiculous. I'm not surprised you can point to examples of fighters running when they're ahead. It happens even without open scoring when it's clear enough that one guy has a big lead, and it would happen even more under open scoring. I'm just pointing out that there is an upside too--in close fights, the guy who finds he's losing will fight harder. I pointed out Taylor-Hopkins I as one example of where open scoring might have made a fight better, and I can remember watching the Sam Peter robbery against James Toney and thinking that it didn't sound too crazy when Freddy Roach was advocating for open scoring afterward. I don't think Sam Peter would have started running, and I think James Toney would have ended up outlanding Peter by even more than he already did in the fight as a result.

So for me, the question is going to be answered by determining whether there are more (a) big fights that are wide enough to be foregone conclusions by the end of the 8th round (and where the losing fighter doesn't have 1-punch KO power) or (b) big fights that are actually closer on the cards than the fighters believe the fight is. If it's (a), then agreed--open scoring is bad for the sport; if it's (b), then it would be on-balance good for the sport. I don't have statistics on this so I really don't know what the answer is.

CC good sport.

Both those problems are..... are NOT open scoring problems.

1) The fighter Hopkins.... He didn't do shyte in the begining rounds. Even his trainer said so.

2) The judge scored it wrong.... but here's the kicker... it wasn't a "robbery" that word is abused. It was a close fight in that what do you score, powerful punches or clean effective punches. In that case, I think that James deserved the nod, but by no means is it a robbery. Knowing or not knowing, a fighter has to fight their heart out in the last rounds to secure a victory. But even if it was open, you'd think Roach would STILL cry foul. He would too, because Roach is a Big BABY! haha Which is why I'd want him as a trainer, to protect me.

As I said....Both those problems are..... are NOT open scoring problems.

Open scoring; prepare for boring azz fights. It's much easier to run away than to engage and fight. Thats common sense dude.