Quote Originally Posted by landmine950
Wacko3205 said.....
Here's my issues with Toney... he got fat & tried to pass himself off as a heavyweight...he's not a heavyweight...he's just fat & mouthy.

I can't stand his a**... at heavyweight.

As a super middle he was impressive now...he's just a loud mouth. I have no respect for him at this weight

Please note* i cut the above quote down a bit. look back to see the full quote(s)

He's not a heavyweight? huh?
Dude he broke 200 pounds in May of 1996! Against Richard Mason!
Thats 11 years ago!!! Thats 10 pounds OVER the Cruiser limit of 190
He HAS to have weight to deal with these big guys!
Can you imagine having Ruiz at 241 hangin all over you and holding you and clutchin and leaning and pushin, if he out weighed you by say 50 pounds! It would be Insane!
Tried to pass himself off as.......a heavyweight. dude thats just disrepectful!
I'm sorry, I really just dont get it!?
Of all the heavy's out there he's taken on the best of the bunch

--Jirov for the IBF cruiserweight Title Remember Jirov was 31-0!
that gave him the credability to go for a title (and BIG$) at heavy
--Evander Holyfield for only his second TKO in his career! something that
Foreman,Holmes,Moorer,Mercer,Tyson twice and Lewis twice COULDN"T DO!
and the only other time took bowe at 6'5" 3 tries inc one loss and a draw!
--Rydell Booker at 22-0 to gain the IBA HW belt,WBC Continental Americas HW belt, which was the WBC elimination bout.
--John Ruiz by Unanimous decision for the WBA and IBA belt
(later ruled a no contest)
--Dominic Guinn 25-2 (an IBA manditory)
--Hasim Rahman who had just beat Monte Barrett for the belt, for the WBC belt ,a majority draw most people felt Toney won
--Then,and now again Samuel Peters "the Nightmare" at 257 pounds! (for the IBA and NABF belts and the WBC eliminator) most people felt Toney took Peter to school.
Regardless of the disputed and controversial outcomes, if this is "Passing himself off" as a Heavyweight I wish the rest of the division would do some of that kind of passing!! Man come on! give the guy some props!
Cockyness is part of who the guy is. It gives him the balls at 5'9" (if that) to go up against these monsters. he's a slick smart pure boxer who's showing the world and the heavyweight division that Boxing isnt about size and brute strength, It's still the "SWEET SCIENCE!" and real "boxing" fans should be cheering the guy on. If you don't like Toney. Then you HAVE to love Valuev! cuz he's trying to prove the opposite!
He has not beaten a legit heavyweight to date. Period. There's no rationalizing logic or pointing out dates...it can't be done. Holy was there to be beaten, yes he beat Ruiz & yes he was on steroids when he did it, Booker (dope fend & a blown up cruiser) & Quinn...please...total underacheiver, & then Peter who is one of the most unrefined heavies out there...he couldn't even beat him.

Did you really bring up Rahman?

Anywho...it's my opinion of Toney that he is a fantastic fighter...but not at 200lbs.

He needs to stop proclaiming to be that which he is not...the savior of the division. He's just a fat blowhard.

Now...when he comes in to fight & he's in shape & he shows out & wins convincingly against a legit heavy...I'll be impressed. Until then...I'll view him as a fat mouthy blown up super middle...because that's when I respected him...but that was then & this is now.


Quote Originally Posted by Punisher136
Alright wacko i'm gonna do something really dangerous and try to understand your logic.

You have an intense dislike for toney at heavyweight when he is obviously the most skilled fighter in the division yet you rally behind the missing link because you think cavemen should have equal rights in boxing as well.


As for trying to understand wacko's logic, it cannot be done from a sober standpoint.
Ha ha ha ha. You are really reaching. I rally behind the missing link.

Let's dispense with this one upping of Wacko really quick. I'm as entitled to my opinion as the next man...just because it aint in line with yours or landmine's up there don't make it anymore right or wrong as the next man.

The thing is...Punisher...opinions don't always equate to logic & while you two seem to be struggling to get me over to your side...your'e both failing & you keep missing the point.

I have said time & time again that Toney is one of the most skilled fighters in the game...but he just aint convincing me at heavy.

When he beats a legit contender & does it well...then I will applaude him.

But for some reason...you two can't recognize that fact.

I'm not a Toney fan...& having a couple of rabid Toney fans trying to break my logic...well...I find that quite amusing.

Reason being...he looked like shit against Rahman, he had to take steroids to beat Ruiz, & he got beaten by a one trick poney when he fought Sam Peter.

The great James Toney...& Sam Peter went 12 with him. Come on.

Don't try to wax intellectual with me about this...because your logic's just as wacko was you both keep preaching mine is.