Chinese Boxing (Kung Fu)

[pacfan]

It's you again, I guess you really like me. But let me tell you something, all those measurements depends on who they measure. If they 'measure' a good boxer against a bad karateman, then the result will be bad for the karateman, and vice-versa, simple as that.

I simply disagree with you, that does not mean I don't like you.

Now I doubt that it is a very accurate study because it does depend on the person, but it gives you a good general idea.

I'm back. Just in case if you're still interested, let me start by telling you that I use a dial-up and those u-tube vids don't 'stream' or roll with them - that's one of the hazards of being a third world man, paradise has it's own drawbacks, I guess. Anyway, it really doesn't matter to me much cuz I've pretty much made up my mind about that, knowing the caliber of boxers these days. But let me clarify one thing first. When I said karatemen are better punchers than boxers, I clearly meant in general terms. I know there are some excellent punchers in boxing and top class punchers there probably are as good as top class karate punchers. Having said that let me 'try' to explain to you why I think karatemen are generally better, punch-wise.

First, in my long experience as a karate puncher, I've learned that one of the basic requirements of a good punch is 'stiffness.' A good punch must be very stiff, that is, it must be thrown with a solid, firm, well-clenched fists. This is where most boxers fail and the reason is pretty simple. Most boxers start learning punching with gloves on, together with all the wrappings. This clearly hampers the clenching of the fists inside them and you can't have a strong, stiff punch without a strong, firm fists and arms. On the other hand, in real karate (I have to emphasize the word real cuz most karate taught nowadays are not authentic ones but as I've said before, they're tailor-made for city kids), students are first taught punching with empty fists, and they are later made to toughen their fists by striking semi-hard posts called 'makiwara' as I and poster 'landmine' have described here. When a puncher strikes a solid object, his fists, wrists and arms must be firm, or else, it collapses, usually at the wrists first. So karatemen are told to strenghten their wrists, as well as their hands (fists) and arms. Without stiff fists, wrists and arms, you can't be an excellent puncher. Strangely, and lucky for him, this is how Pacquiao started punching and I'm very sure it's not a coincidence why he punches well. A local tv showed couple of times a place where he grew up and first started punching. He punched with bare fists on a coconut tree post with a pair of rubber flip-flop sandals attached for a little cushion - almost exactly like the karate makiwaras!

The next important characteristic of a good punch is a snap, but it must be accompanied with a good 'stiffness' in order to be effective. Erik had a pretty good snap in his punches but he wasn't able to knock Pac simply because they lacked stiffness. If they were hard, stiff punches, I'm pretty sure he'd knocked my boy down. Stiffness is one big reason why Lennox Lewis' (did I get the spelling right?) punches are effective. Haven't anyone here thought why inspite of pretty boring, slow-looking punches Lewis throws, they still hurt his opponents. It's because his punches, with a reasonable snap, are very stiff. It's like putting a 3 by 3 inch stick inside a boxing glove and hitting you with it with a good snap - I can assure you that'll hurt any tough guys.

There are other important characteristics of a good punch but I'll not go into them now cuz probably most people here, who are mostly fans, are not much interested in them anyway. I think I've said enough anyway to clarify my points here. I'll probably write about it in the future when someone comes up with a thread about 'punches'.

Well PACFAN.....you earned a degree of credibility with the use of the word makiwara board. It was our best freind in the gym.
For those of you who dont know what it is...
Ours was made from 3, 6 foot long 2x4's the middle 2x4 was about 3 or 3 1/2 feet long so there was a gap of 2" between the upper 3 or so feet of the 2 front and back boards. the front board had some padding. I think it was some electrical tape! the aparatus was concreted into the ground. The boards are quite ridgid . You stood in front of the thing and punched the front board with your bare fist (knuckles) for a series of practice punches. For the punch to count you must strike it with enough force that the front 2x4 "smacks" the rear one (remember there is a 2" gap as the middle board is shorter) making a loud clacking noise! When i was first introduced to this device i thought he was joking! Pushing the front board as hard as i could with all my body weight (then about 160) I was unable to make it bend or flex back to touch the rear board. Part of the reason is that a slow force bends all 3 boards at the same time. A strong and fast blow is required . and overcoming the fear of breaking your hand against the board. It took me 2 years before I ever heard the boards "clack".
MAny never did. Many hands were broken. Really it was a stupid idea!!
BUT!! the pride when you could step up to the board and count off repeated strikes with the loud clacking!! ICH, NEE, SUM ,CHI, GO ,ROK ,Hitch.. we counted in japanese as the students watched in amazement. One day I came to the dojo very early and caught our instructor screwing large wood screws into the makiwara board! by screwing the 3 boards together starting at the base and moving pogressivly higher and higher up it made it more ridgid and harder to bend!!! The B@stard! he just smiled at me! no wonder it always seemed so F#cking hard! After maybe 4 years the instuctor took all those who had mastered teh makiwara board and gave us other assignments! One i remember was trying to punch a hole through a cardboard box while it was just sitting on a high table. A stiff small box with thickish sides like an orange or apple box will do make sure its closed with the lid on so the sides are 2 thicknesses. TRY it! its hard! the damn thing just flys away when you go to hit it. I won many bets. AHH the memmories....(looks down at arthritised knuckles...mumbles......B@stard)

Mr. landmine, it was pleasure 'talking' to you here, as it is always a pleasure for me to talk to anyone about karate. And of course, thanks for your appreciation - the respect is mutual. Now I can close this discussion and this thread is the most that I've written on so far, whewy. By the way, though a bit late, Happy Birthday to you!