Holyfield vs Ali

[SweetPea]

I think Ali gets his a** handed to him by the old version of George Foreman..

You're joking, right?
The same "old" Foreman who got beaten easily by Tommy Morrison, beaten easily by Holyfield, and barely beat Alex Stewart and Axel Schultz?

Ali is better than Evander in all areas on paper, but fights aren't fought on paper, there's all sorts of intangibles that factor into the equation, factors that can turn the tide of a fight, and I also have a feeling that Evander would win.

The intangibles favored Ali in just about every fight he ever fought, because he has more intangibles than any other fighter.
Holyfield is a great fighter and has had a great career, but he is no Ali.

[Lords Gym]

Quote from: Hulk on Today at 01:31:39 AM
If the "Real Deal" and "The Greatest" would have rumbled in their primes, in a 12 round bout, who would have come out on top? Could Holy's talent, heart, and dedication have overcome the speed, stamina, and iron will of Ali?

There's not one single part of boxing that Ali didn't do better than Holyfield. That's not a knock on Holyfield, it's just true. Prime Ali wins a UD over Holyfield. Prime Ali beats every heavyweight in history.

Excellent point, however I happen to disagree. Ali is better than Evander in all areas on paper, but fights aren't fought on paper, there's all sorts of intangibles that factor into the equation, factors that can turn the tide of a fight, and I also have a feeling that Evander would win. The one constant of boxing, and all sports, is that upsets will happen. There isn't a fighter who ever lived, Ali and Ray Robinson included, who would simply win every hypothetical matchup because they happen to be better. Sometimes, the better overall fighter, being in top shape and at the top of his game, can lose. Of course it wouldn't shock me if Ali boxed Holyfields head off , but I think Evander wins.

you make a good point . Cool Click

speaking of intangibles .. What era would these happen in Thats a huge factor … Ali would not get away with half that shit he did , this day and age. And the way he fought on his heels would have been more of a negative on today’s score cards… … I think Ali has more troubles under today’s jurisdiction ,, When you talk about holding behind the head all day long.. You think of Ali.

[Lords Gym]

I think Ali gets his a** handed to him by the old version of George Foreman..

You're joking, right?
The same "old" Foreman who got beaten easily by Tommy Morrison, beaten easily by Holyfield, and barely beat Alex Stewart and Axel Schultz?

Ali is better than Evander in all areas on paper, but fights aren't fought on paper, there's all sorts of intangibles that factor into the equation, factors that can turn the tide of a fight, and I also have a feeling that Evander would win.

The intangibles favored Ali in just about every fight he ever fought, because he has more intangibles than any other fighter.
Holyfield is a great fighter and has had a great career, but he is no Ali.

Cool click in 24 hrs Sweetpea! good read !

[Scrap]

So when was Holyfeild at his best as a heavy, the 1st Bowe fight or.

[brocktonblockbust]

Ali beats Holy, not by KO, but by dancing

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Thats about right. An Ali without a bounce in his step gets out worked and hustled by Holyfield.

[Lords Gym]

So when was Holyfeild at his best as a heavy, the 1st Bowe fight or.

I'd say right out of the crusierweights . about the time of the Douglas Fight Evander was peaking

[Scrap]

Good point, Id go with that.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I second that. He wasnt at his most durable, but technically, yep no doubt.

[SweetPea]

I don't want to come off as the big Holyfield basher in this thread, but how come everyone who picks Holyfield says that he would win because of his heart, determination, desire, hustle, etc, etc.?

Did Ali not have these qualities?

[skyler]

I like this fight too, but I think the silly thing about these debates is that people for some reason think certain fighters were 'unbeatable' at certain times in their careers. As someone on this board once said (can't remember who) but that people always say, 'Tyson in the mid 80s would beat anyone. Roy at 168 would beat anyone. Robinson at 147 would beat anyone. Ali before his 3 year exile would beat anyone.' It's total bullsh!t. People always make sure to say their favorite fighter (or a fighter they have tremendous respect for) was at his prime between dates when he didn't lose, so if someone comes along and offers the opinion that they could be beaten, they retort by saying, 'he wouldn't lose because no one beat him in his prime.' Boxing is about styles and no one who ever lived would dominate all others in their prime. I'm not saying prime Ali would lose, but if he won he'd be leaning over a bucket puking for an hour after the fight after having to leave everything out in the ring to beat a prime Holyfield, or a prime Tyson, or even a prime Lennox for that matter. For the record, I acknowledge Ali as the greatest heavyweight of all time, and Robinson as the greatest p4p fighter of all time, but they were not so far ahead of every other all time great that they could simply walk into the ring and give them all boxing lessons, even in their primes.

[Samson3000]

I don't want to come off as the big Holyfield basher in this thread, but how come everyone who picks Holyfield says that he would win because of his heart, determination, desire, hustle, etc, etc.?

Did Ali not have these qualities?

I picked Evander and I didn't say he would win because he had more heart or desire than Ali. I said IMO it's a bad style matchup for Ali.

[Lords Gym]

I don't want to come off as the big Holyfield basher in this thread, but how come everyone who picks Holyfield says that he would win because of his heart, determination, desire, hustle, etc, etc.?

Did Ali not have these qualities?

I'm going to refrain from any other comments on this particular thread . I am not educated enough about Ali in his true prime to give an honest opinion. .. not to mention , I was never a big Ali fan , as un popular as that may be. I liked Joe Frazier and wanted him to tax that Ali ass. ! truth be told

Subsequently I got Joe Louis as the greatest of all time !

[Scrap]

Skyler Every point you make is true. But I dont make SRR the best of all time

[Lords Gym]

Skyler Every point you make is true. But I dont make SRR the best of all time

Hey Scarp weight in mate ! what do think Ali or Holyfield ?? Is Ali the greatest of all time in your estimation ?