Fens, Good question, Maybe after his 14 or 16th fight. He had 300 amatuer fights and for my money was the best Am of his era. He had a lot of ware and tare from the amatuers and wasnt young when he turned Pro his physical and mental awareness levels were peaking at that time. As an amatuer he was a ringer for Chavez a Russian with an American style was the first thing I noticed about him very unusual at that time. Hes one fighter who should have been based in the States it would have been a different ball game. Wish I could have got him, like everybody else.