Rafael Marquez closing in on the 'top 3'?

[Preme]

After watching the Marquez vs Vazquez fight i think Rafa is very close to if not in the top 3 p4p right now! that was one hell of a fight and can't wait for the rematch, but Marquez was awsome and showed what a complete boxer he is.

Its hard to place him right now what with barrera and his brother going at it this weekend, im sure the outcome of that will warrent some changes in the list, but Rafael Marquezwas out standing in that fight! he did go down once but took some big lefts from Isreal and kept going - its always more impressive when you beat a fello p4p'er, but stopping one is even more so!

[Violent Demise]

Number 3? Your fucking crazy. No way Rafael is number 3. I got him right were he belongs. Right behind Floyd Mayweather at number 2.

[Preme]

close to or IN the top 3 - i didn't say which one exactly

The file i had to download to watch wasn't to great, broke up a bit and wasn't always to easy to see what was landing and what wasn't, the sound was like 2 seconds after so im hearing these blow go in but no on1 was throwing at the time

[Preme]

Number 3? Your F****** crazy. No way Rafael is number 3. I got him right were he belongs. Right behind Floyd Mayweather at number 2.

where have u got isreal? still got him in the top 10 even after he lost?

[CutMeMick]

Well, I have him at #4.... I just can't see him past those 3 YET!!
Surely if Marquez can follow this win up with something good he jumps to #3
as I don't think a PAC win over Solis does much for him in terms of P4P......

PBF
Winky
PAC
R.Marquez

[Kev]

I don't think he's nunber 3 yet. Vazquez wasn't a p4p fighter imo. I predicted before the fight it would be very one sided and apart from the flash knockdown in the third it was.

I'd still put Floyd, Pacquiao, Winky, Barrera, Hopkins, Taylor and maybe Calzaghe ahead of him, I mean come on people Vazaquez isn't any better than a Lacy or a Tarver, although I can imagine El Gamo will be frantically writing to point out the foolishness of my views

[Preme]

I don't think he's nunber 3 yet. Vazquez wasn't a p4p fighter imo. I predicted before the fight it would be very one sided and apart from the flash knockdown in the third it was.

I'd still put Floyd, Pacquiao, Winky, Barrera, Hopkins, Taylor and maybe Calzaghe ahead of him, I mean come on people Vazaquez isn't any better than a Lacy or a Tarver, although I can imagine El Gamo will be frantically writing to point out the foolishness of my views

Vazquez is more than a fighter who can knock out old past it ones, and can box well, he doesn't rely soly on his power so imo he is streets ahead of btoh tarver and lacy.

if rafa isn't top 3 yet he must be atleast 4 or 5? i think he is clearly in front of taylor, he can fight for every second of every round, has big power, great in his feet, picks his punches as good as anyone, he looked to be very very acurate in his last fight! I can understand your barrera point, why i said its hard to place him just yet untill we see this weekends fight, but from past fights yes IMo he is higher than barrera, i think if it was most other fighters who had done what barrera had in his last two outings he wudn't be that high, we al wanna give hi the benefit of the doubt coz of what hes done in the past i think and hope he has been saving him self for a test like this one...

i would rake rafa above both hopkin and calzaghe to in a hearbeat right now! hopkins is 1 from 3 with his win coming over a guy i really don't rate that much, calzaghe didn't show up to the bika fight and is fighting a contender.

[Kev]

I don't think he's nunber 3 yet. Vazquez wasn't a p4p fighter imo. I predicted before the fight it would be very one sided and apart from the flash knockdown in the third it was.

I'd still put Floyd, Pacquiao, Winky, Barrera, Hopkins, Taylor and maybe Calzaghe ahead of him, I mean come on people Vazaquez isn't any better than a Lacy or a Tarver, although I can imagine El Gamo will be frantically writing to point out the foolishness of my views

Vazquez is more than a fighter who can knock out old past it ones, and can box well, he doesn't rely soly on his power so imo he is streets ahead of btoh tarver and lacy.

if rafa isn't top 3 yet he must be atleast 4 or 5? i think he is clearly in front of taylor, he can fight for every second of every round, has big power, great in his feet, picks his punches as good as anyone, he looked to be very very acurate in his last fight! I can understand your barrera point, why i said its hard to place him just yet untill we see this weekends fight, but from past fights yes IMo he is higher than barrera, i think if it was most other fighters who had done what barrera had in his last two outings he wudn't be that high, we al wanna give hi the benefit of the doubt coz of what hes done in the past i think and hope he has been saving him self for a test like this one...

i would rake rafa above both hopkin and calzaghe to in a hearbeat right now! hopkins is 1 from 3 with his win coming over a guy i really don't rate that much, calzaghe didn't show up to the bika fight and is fighting a contender.

I agree that he is but I would also say that Tarver and Lacy are too.

Lacy and Tarver are now too examples of excellent boxers who are are now vastly underratted. Lacy is still one of the best super middles in the world and will show that once his shoulder has healed up and Tarver no matter how much people hate on him was once the man at 175 lb.

[CutMeMick]

I don't think he's nunber 3 yet. Vazquez wasn't a p4p fighter imo.

In almost EVERYONE'S list (excluding yours) he was at number 7 or 8.

I predicted before the fight it would be very one sided and apart from the flash knockdown in the third it was.

The fight was NOT one sided or pretty one sided either, Marquez was just edging out the rounds and Vasquez is never out of a fight regardless how many rds. hes down.... Flash knockdown, are you serious? I was ringside it was everything BUT a flash knockdown that punch caught Marquez right on the jaw if it was a flash knockdown belive me Marquez would not have wobbled that way he did when he got up.....

I'd still put Floyd, Pacquiao, Winky, Barrera, Hopkins, Taylor and maybe Calzaghe ahead of him

PBF, Winky, Pac I agree. MAB I can see the arguement there.... BUT Hopkins, Taylor & Especially Joe hell no!!!!

I mean come on people Vazaquez isn't any better than a Lacy or a Tarver

Yes he is and I'll tell you why he was able to reign and become the IBF, Ring and WBC Champ. in his div. @ Super Bantam.
He stoped Larios in 3, Pac didn't stop Larios he wen't all 12.....
He had a great bout with Jhonny (Who was another very close P4P at the time they met) where he was loosing and whom he also stopped......

Tarvers inactivity and his last loss IMO, drops him off the P4P list....
Lacy is on his way back up, I just don't see how you think Lacy & Vasquez match up. Lacy was the IBO champ. Vasquez was the Ring Champ. those belts are Worlds apart.....

[Kev]

I don't think he's nunber 3 yet. Vazquez wasn't a p4p fighter imo.

In almost EVERYONE'S list (excluding yours) he was at number 7 or 8.

I predicted before the fight it would be very one sided and apart from the flash knockdown in the third it was.

The fight was NOT one sided or pretty one sided either, Marquez was just edging out the rounds and Vasquez is never out of a fight regardless how many rds. hes down.... Flash knockdown, are you serious? I was ringside it was everything BUT a flash knockdown that punch caught Marquez right on the jaw if it was a flash knockdown belive me Marquez would not have wobbled that way he did when he got up.....

I'd still put Floyd, Pacquiao, Winky, Barrera, Hopkins, Taylor and maybe Calzaghe ahead of him

PBF, Winky, Pac I agree. MAB I can see the arguement there.... BUT Hopkins, Taylor & Especially Joe hell no!!!!

I mean come on people Vazaquez isn't any better than a Lacy or a Tarver

Yes he is and I'll tell you why he was able to reign and become the IBF, Ring and WBC Champ. in his div. @ Super Bantam.
He stoped Larios in 3, Pac didn't stop Larios he wen't all 12.....
He had a great bout with Jhonny (Who was another very close P4P at the time they met) where he was loosing and whom he also stopped......

Tarvers inactivity and his last loss IMO, drops him off the P4P list....
Lacy is on his way back up, I just don't see how you think Lacy & Vasquez match up. Lacy was the IBO champ. Vasquez was the Ring Champ. those belts are Worlds apart.....

What top 10 p4p ranking lists are you referring to that Vazquez was in?

He was never in the Ring magazine's top 10 p4p.

He was never in Boxingtalks' top 10 p4p.

The ring magazine now rates Marquez as number 7 behind PBF, Pacquiao, Wright, Taylor, Hopkins and Barrera and one ahead of Calzaghe.

Thats the only rankings that count and I agree with them completely

[CutMeMick]

I don't think he's nunber 3 yet. Vazquez wasn't a p4p fighter imo.

In almost EVERYONE'S list (excluding yours) he was at number 7 or 8.

I predicted before the fight it would be very one sided and apart from the flash knockdown in the third it was.

The fight was NOT one sided or pretty one sided either, Marquez was just edging out the rounds and Vasquez is never out of a fight regardless how many rds. hes down.... Flash knockdown, are you serious? I was ringside it was everything BUT a flash knockdown that punch caught Marquez right on the jaw if it was a flash knockdown belive me Marquez would not have wobbled that way he did when he got up.....

I'd still put Floyd, Pacquiao, Winky, Barrera, Hopkins, Taylor and maybe Calzaghe ahead of him

PBF, Winky, Pac I agree. MAB I can see the arguement there.... BUT Hopkins, Taylor & Especially Joe hell no!!!!

I mean come on people Vazaquez isn't any better than a Lacy or a Tarver

Yes he is and I'll tell you why he was able to reign and become the IBF, Ring and WBC Champ. in his div. @ Super Bantam.
He stoped Larios in 3, Pac didn't stop Larios he wen't all 12.....
He had a great bout with Jhonny (Who was another very close P4P at the time they met) where he was loosing and whom he also stopped......

Tarvers inactivity and his last loss IMO, drops him off the P4P list....
Lacy is on his way back up, I just don't see how you think Lacy & Vasquez match up. Lacy was the IBO champ. Vasquez was the Ring Champ. those belts are Worlds apart.....

What top 10 p4p ranking lists are you referring to that Vazquez was in?

He was never in the Ring magazine's top 10 p4p.

He was never in Boxingtalks' top 10 p4p.

The ring magazine now rates Marquez as number 7 behind PBF, Pacquiao, Wright, Taylor, Hopkins and Barrera and one ahead of Calzaghe.

Thats the only rankings that count and I agree with them completely

My mistake, thought you were reffering to Marquez..... :P
You are right Vasquez was not top 10 P4P, but Marquez was 7 or 8 in some lists.....
After this win IMO, he leaps up to #3.

[Kev]

I don't think he's nunber 3 yet. Vazquez wasn't a p4p fighter imo.

In almost EVERYONE'S list (excluding yours) he was at number 7 or 8.

I predicted before the fight it would be very one sided and apart from the flash knockdown in the third it was.

The fight was NOT one sided or pretty one sided either, Marquez was just edging out the rounds and Vasquez is never out of a fight regardless how many rds. hes down.... Flash knockdown, are you serious? I was ringside it was everything BUT a flash knockdown that punch caught Marquez right on the jaw if it was a flash knockdown belive me Marquez would not have wobbled that way he did when he got up.....

I'd still put Floyd, Pacquiao, Winky, Barrera, Hopkins, Taylor and maybe Calzaghe ahead of him

PBF, Winky, Pac I agree. MAB I can see the arguement there.... BUT Hopkins, Taylor & Especially Joe hell no!!!!

I mean come on people Vazaquez isn't any better than a Lacy or a Tarver

Yes he is and I'll tell you why he was able to reign and become the IBF, Ring and WBC Champ. in his div. @ Super Bantam.
He stoped Larios in 3, Pac didn't stop Larios he wen't all 12.....
He had a great bout with Jhonny (Who was another very close P4P at the time they met) where he was loosing and whom he also stopped......

Tarvers inactivity and his last loss IMO, drops him off the P4P list....
Lacy is on his way back up, I just don't see how you think Lacy & Vasquez match up. Lacy was the IBO champ. Vasquez was the Ring Champ. those belts are Worlds apart.....

What top 10 p4p ranking lists are you referring to that Vazquez was in?

He was never in the Ring magazine's top 10 p4p.

He was never in Boxingtalks' top 10 p4p.

The ring magazine now rates Marquez as number 7 behind PBF, Pacquiao, Wright, Taylor, Hopkins and Barrera and one ahead of Calzaghe.

Thats the only rankings that count and I agree with them completely

My mistake, thought you were reffering to Marquez..... :P
You are right Vasquez was not top 10 P4P, but Marquez was 7 or 8 in some lists.....
After this win IMO, he leaps up to #3.

Ah no problem, yes I definitely think Marquez is p4p but not yet top 5 as I feel Floyd, Winky, Pacquiao, Barrera and Taylor have done more. I'm a big fan of Hopkins and will keep him at 6 until he loses or retires. I think the Ring rankings right now are spot on, Mosely has made an entrance at 10 as well which is about right.

The reason I don't think Marquez is top 3 is because prior to the Vazquez fight he was at best number 10 or 11 p4p probably about 12th. Again thats not me, thats the Ring and Boxingtalk the only official rankings that I ever follow.

Just by beating Vazquez he doesn't jump 8 or 9 places to be top 3 in my opinion. Beating Vazquez was no better than Hatton beating Tyszu and Hatton is barely in the top 10 right now.

It's an exciting time for both the Marquez brothers right now and both could continue to climb up the rankings, but lets not put them amongst the very elite 2 or 3 fighters in the world until they have earned it.

Mayweather is a 4 weight world champ, unbeaten and has been in the p4p for the past 5 or 6 years, the last 12 months as number 1, Winky has been sensational over the past few years beating Mosely twice, shutting out Trinidad and in many people's eyes beating Taylor last year. Pacquaio has knocked out Barerra once and Morales twice, he's a two weight world champ and is regarded as the man at super feather although he's still yet to win a title there.

R Marquez hasn't done enough to gatecrash that group in my opinion.

[p4pking]

Well basiically Bilbo, this arguement comes down to what you base p4p on. Stricly speaking by accomplishements, you have a very good point... Marquez can't yet match the achievements of Mayweather, Winky, Pac, or Hopkins. But, I still have him about top 3 after watching him beat Vasquez. It's hard to rank him above Pac or Winky, I understand that... But in terms of his ability, I feel he's right up there with them. Can't even remember where I had him beforehand(though he was in my top 10...) but moving up in weight to bneat Vasquez like that is extremely impressive. Especially since he fights at a low weight division, which not only does not receive the same attention and therefore mega fights as higher div's, in addition, it is much more difficult to successfully move up divisions, the smaller you are. Basically I would like to rate Hopkins, or Winky definetivly above Marquez, but at this stage in their careers, Im just not sure they are p4p better than he is, accomplishements aside. Guess Im really somewhat on the fence with this one... But R Marquez has all the goods, and I think you were doing Vasquez a huge injustice by saying he was no better than Lacy or Tarver... In fact, I wonder if you've ever seen him fight after hearing this

[Kev]

Well basiically Bilbo, this arguement comes down to what you base p4p on. Stricly speaking by accomplishements, you have a very good point... Marquez can't yet match the achievements of Mayweather, Winky, Pac, or Hopkins. But, I still have him about top 3 after watching him beat Vasquez. It's hard to rank him above Pac or Winky, I understand that... But in terms of his ability, I feel he's right up there with them. Can't even remember where I had him beforehand(though he was in my top 10...) but moving up in weight to bneat Vasquez like that is extremely impressive. Especially since he fights at a low weight division, which not only does not receive the same attention and therefore mega fights as higher div's, in addition, it is much more difficult to successfully move up divisions, the smaller you are. Basically I would like to rate Hopkins, or Winky definetivly above Marquez, but at this stage in their careers, Im just not sure they are p4p better than he is, accomplishements aside. Guess Im really somewhat on the fence with this one... But R Marquez has all the goods, and I think you were doing Vasquez a huge injustice by saying he was no better than Lacy or Tarver... In fact, I wonder if you've ever seen him fight after hearing this

I do rate Vazquez, I just happen to think that Lacy and Tarver are both a lot better than people credit them too! Lacy was exposed against Calzaghe but no more than Vazquez was being against Ghonzalez. The only difference is that Ghonzalez was no Calzaghe!

If Hopkins and Vazquez could both fight at the same weight (in a hypothetical p4p matchup) I put it to you that Hopkins would beat Vazquez as easily as he did Tarver, or Trinidad. Can you really disagree with this? Thats why I rate Hopkins higher than Marquez.

Vazquez is one of those fighters in the same class as Coralles. A great exciting puncher, terrific to watch with defensive vulnurabilities and who is always going to lose to a great boxer, as long as the boxer can take his shots. That's why I knew Marquez would dominate. I know some say it was a close fight, but I didn't really see that. It was a hard fight but it was always going to be Marquez that one right from the first bell. He even won the whole rest of the third round apart from being knocked down.

Now Marquez I agree is something special but he's now at the stage Mayweather was 4 or 5 years ago, or Paquaio a couple of years, loads of potential, flashy, exciting and looks like he's got the goods. But he has to actually produce before he's earned his spot in the top 3.

I mean look at Cotto. Surely this guy has every bit the talent and potential that Marquez has? But he's yet to really get into the top 10 p4p at all. If he beats Judah, who is on a par with Vazquez it won't leap him to number 3, and remember Cotto has just moved up, same as Marquez.

I really like Marquez, and really rate him, it's just that to be in the top 5 p4p in my opinion you need to be there on acomplishments and not potential.

He hasn't achieved enough to be top 5 p4p yet, although certainly he does have the potential to get there.

[Violent Demise]

Number 3? Your F****** crazy. No way Rafael is number 3. I got him right were he belongs. Right behind Floyd Mayweather at number 2.

where have u got isreal? still got him in the top 10 even after he lost?

I had Vazquez at number 11 before the fight. Just outside the top 10. He's obviously dropped down.