Quote Originally Posted by Heavy D
Not to pick out the one example, but Belfort was a boxer. Former LW champ Jens Pulver was a boxer. How did Sylvia become champion? There are plenty of giants in MMA, and most of them suck. It was his ability to utilize his freak size through superior boxing. How did Couture beat Liddell and Sylvia? It wasn't with his wrestling...it was his boxing. How does Cro Cop win his fights? His boxing, which he uses to set up his killer LHK. Without his boxing skills, it would be useless.

Munky, I said "very few", not nobody. The examples you listed were the exception, not the rule. Those were cases where the other person was simply better than their opponent in that given field. Hughes is simply better on the ground than Royce...his strength and wrestling skills simply overshadow Royce's. Hunt isn't the best technical fighter, but his chin and strength are just too much for even the mighty Cro Cop....hell, he ate a direct hit from his LHK, the most feared strike in all MMA, and didn't even flinch. Even in K1, he just fell over and laughed at himself as he stood.

And exactly what this thread was about, Tyson directly or Tyson with some training, I don't remember and am too lazy to check. Either way...I honestly feel Tyson with NO training would win the majority of his fights, even against a good deal of top tier fighters. Tyson WITH training would decimate almost anybody I could think of.

I guess either way, this question will never be answered, because even if Tyson WERE to come over to MMA, he's second rate, if even. He's been beaten by shlubs at his own game over and over.
I'll give you Belfort as having a considerable amateur boxing record, but he only has one pro fight(a year ago i think) and in all honesty his great boxing background has only lead to a average MMA career with some decent wins and some devastating losses. Saying Pulver has a history as a boxer is misleading as well. He grew up as a wrestler in both HS and college. I don't think he had an amateur career(i could be wrong), and his 4 pro fight oppositions combined record was 4-4. I like Jens, but he himself has been thumped in a standup game by Sakurai and others. And come one are you really going to attest Randy's victory to boxing? A snapping leg kick followed by a "sloppy" looping right is due to traditional boxing? It looked pretty similar to another sloppy puncher Arlovski when he tagged Tim. But if Tim's boxing is so good and ofcourse he is so much taller then why did he get put on his back so many times? Yall crack me up. Listening to yall all MMA fighters throw sloppy punches and have horrible techniques yet anytime someone wins a fight from a punch it was b/c of their great boxing. Pick a side guys. Either they all can't hit the broad side of a barn with punches or some of them are very precise and hard hitting fighters whose sport is different than boxing and therefore their style is different. I'm not going to argue that "boxing" is a more technical standup sport, but I think that is exactly why you percieve all of these guys as being sloppy. B/c of MMA's versatility the striking is a little bit more raw. The minute technicalities and details of boxing get lost b/c of the use of kicks, knees, elbows, takedowns, takedown defense, fighting from the clinch. Stance, movement, use of combinations and style of punching all change when the above are taken into account.

Von, considering that almost none of the top MMA fighters in the world have gone on to box I don't think we can really say that they dont' box well. All of these guys do bag work, speed bags, mitts, spar etc. Its not like they don't train everyday in many of the same things that boxers do. I maintain that an untrained boxer in an MMA fight has only a punchers chance. A trained boxer..well really isn't a boxer. That is what MMA has taught us is that you have to be well versed. If he is cross training than he is a mixed martial artist with a background in a boxing. I think you underestimate the necessary training for Judo/Sambo/BJJ/Wrestling/kickboxing etc. I guess if you feel that boxing takes years of training to master but that you can be at least proficient in the above disciplines in a couple of months than it really isn't a suprise that you think a boxer could just walk through these guys. I say again that a sprawl is not the complete answer to takedown defense nor is it something you master in a weekend.

lastly we will have to agree to disagree on Tyson. overrated loser who doesn't even make it in my top 10 hw's. use Jermain Taylor at 170/185, RJJ at 155, Evander at 205, Vitali/Ali/Joe Louis at HW with good cross training and I might tend to agree.