Judo or Jui Jitsu

[Munkymagic]

I enjoyed the thread and videos. Obviously with the throw you have your opponent off balance and controlled so they quite often roll right into the sub opportunity. I've been attempting to incorporate some good "flying" armbars and ankle locks, but w/o the Gi I'm finding it pretty difficult. I'm not the most agile and quick guy either. The seamless transition after the throw was impressive though. When watching alot of the BJJ vs Judo vids I've noticed that instead of locking up w/ the judokan the BJJ practitioner usually does some sort of slide or drop to get a single leg. The strength of BJJ is the importance they put on fighting from the guard. Whether the emphasis and techniques are legitmately a Helio Gracie improvisation or just taken from Judo or traditional JJ. I'm really looking forward to working out w/ Texas A&Ms Judo team when I'm home on leave next month. I've been getting back into training slowly since I got back but I'm working through some injuries sustained during the deployment. The All Army Combatives Tournament is in Nov and barring another deployment I hope to compete.

On a side note Munky:
1. What are the rules stipulating how long a fight can go on the ground in Judo?
2. How well do you feel the Judo throws transition w/o the Gi?
3. I've never seen the move on the video where essentially you get your legs around your opponents head and shoulder then pull their leg to their head. What is it called and where is the submission at?(where do you feel it I mean)

Just watched that vid again. The flying armbars are a pleasure to watch. Especially the very first move on the vid which is a drop sienoage throw straight into an armbar...he's already won the point with the throw i think the flash bastard, was beauty personified.

To answer your questions

1) Its up to the referees as to how long they let things go on on the ground. Generaly though they like to see something happening withint 30 seconds or it gets stood back up again. This is why Judo newawza is so explosive because you have so little time on the ground that you want to get stuck in and get the sub QUICK. You are not allowed to deliberately go for the takedown BJJ style with a double leg shoot. It has to be via a failed throw or one of the judokas twisting out of a throw and landing on his side (this awards a wazari or similar to the opponent...not a full ippon so the contest goes on), then the groundwork starts. This is why turtling is a favoured defence move in Judo competition. Because if they can hold something off by turtling and grabbing their gi lapels and tucking their chin in for 30 secs then it will go back to feet. We still use the guard in judo and we train how to attack from it and pass it BUT its not explored to the extent it is in BJJ.

2) Depends. It needs to be worked and practised without gi of course but most throws are easily adapted. The main advantage of the gi of course is the grip, it is something that does not easily slip out of your hands but without the gi its more diffifult due to the sweat and/or blood on the body. The very first throw on the vid, the drop sieonage is quite easily adapted but its only worth doing if you are a very highly skilled judoka (simply because you are giving your opponent your back..albeit for a split second). Karo Parysian has pulled this throw off a few times.
Also hip throws are easy to do since the main leverage point comes at the hips and you onyl really need to put your arm around their wasit to guide them over. Bear in mind this stuff only works if 1) you have broken balance by way of deception, knowledge of weight displacement and 2) you are explosive,quick and fully committed to the throw.
Reaps,leg sweeps and others throws again can be adapted its just a matter of substituting the grip on the gi for another part of the body (not a great deal of choice) that allows you similar leverage. If you manage to get to a judo class ask if they train some no gi stuff. I could go on all night about this subject.. :P

3) Thats actually a choking move using the gi lapel. If you look closely the gi is being pulled across the larynx from the far side crushing it, the leg hold is so he cannot get leverage to twist out of the choke. The reason for the insanely quick tap is it causes immense panic when you are not really expecting it. Its not like a RNC where you fight it for a bit...this choke crushes your larynx and you tap fucking quick. The move where The chap in the white gi rolls his opponent into it is a great move, set up perfectly.

Hope this helps