I was watching friday night fights last night and it really is amazing how much better boxers are with their hands...vs those chumps on TUF 5... did you se them doing punch outs on the bag? AWEFUL. MMAers tend to go for big looping shots...the one punch KO. It doesn't work that way. But Van has had an impact on me because I'm starting to see and understand his point that you can "box" quite as comfortably in mma because of the threat of the take down. I'll now admit, there's some truth to that. But my counter argument is that it all starts with the hands, and with such grreat hand speed and accuracy and the mma'ers inability to elude those punches, it makes getting the take down very difficult. That'w hy as a BASE system, boxing is it, IMO, followed by good ald fashioned wrestling... or judo if you have the money to spend on it! Parysian is awesome. love watching him. Anyway, Trigg once said that it would only take fedor about 2minutes to take down tyson and beat him up. sure, fedor eventually could take down tyson, but you have to consuider how much damage tyson would do in those first two minutes. A ton...maybe even enough to preclude the takedown more often than not.