went to a MT comp last night....

[voodoo_dude]

there were 3 pro fights and around 20 amateurs.
Ive got to say there was alot more excitement than in amateur boxing fights Ive seen, mainly because there is less strategy and more run in and slug it out. The knees to the face were DEVASTATING

But I'm left with a few questions:
Do MTers ever practice punching? Seriously their punches were embarassing.
Also when the two fighters are in a clinch are they allowed to throw each other to the ground? I saw this alot and the crowd would go wild

I think if a boxer were to learn muay thai they would do really well in there with all of the poor punching and openings.
All in all it was a good night

[VictorCharlie]

well the pro to MT is the being able to fight in such close quarters. Knees, elbows and cracking leg strikes as well as some varieties counting the leg sweeps and throws as points are what the sport is known for. So sure if you have world class punching you'd do better than someone who doesn't but at some point there will be a clinch and you better know how to handle it. Most imporantly coming from a boxing background is how to deal w/ leg kicks. If you look at the arthur williams and vince phillips experiments at kickboxing it was the leg kicks that made the difference. They were never able to get their punches off very well. Mercer and Botha are also examples of good boxers in the kick boxing genre. Botha had a fair to poor showing. mercer was demolished.

[Von Milash]

MTers are tough mofos, and the good ones have good hands, but a lot do suck with hands compared to boxers. That is true. If MTers were smart, they'd train both.

[JamesD]

a MT fighter with good boxing would be devastating. most traditional MT fighters don't have good boxing though. they do not focus on the punching aspect. not sure why. in my MT classes we do cover boxing, though. so it will depend alot on the instructor and style.

[VictorCharlie]

here is Vince Phillips trying kickboxing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnY9JsPxBvU

Here is Arthur Williams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9gjw47NFzI

Here is Ray Mercer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCXdXtLCt3A

Another Mercer fight. This is not a fair matchup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXkcYul1LRo

Pretty much goes to show that although the better hands you have the better off you are but boxing can't stand alone against kickboxing.

[Von Milash]

Van,

Just for the record, you KNOW I've always endorced KBers as bad ass guys. Leg kicks are devastating, but in GENERAL, I don't think traditional MMAers could use them like KBers do because unlike a kickboxer, it's not an engrained offensive weapon. I've also said that I beleive Mirko has had tremendouns success BECAUSE he was simply using a superior fightign style.

[VictorCharlie]

I would agree that there is definately some long hours of training required to be proficient at leg kicks. So I'd agree that even a great fighter like say Rich Franklin isn't going to be nearly as efficient at snapping leg kicks as someone who has spent years doing it. That being said I don't think we are talking about years of training like world class boxing takes. I'm often suprised that some of the top notch strikers do not use it more often. Mirko is truly one of the most perplexing fighters ever. He will run off a great string of wins then just seem to completely not show up one night. My point in the earlier posts was that in kickboxing or MT the leg kick is a great neutralizer to a boxers typically superior hands.

[Von Milash]

I couldn't agree more. A top boxer against a top KBer is a great matchup. If the boxer can't get inside, the leg kicks will end him. BUT, there's no reason why the boxer couldn't learn to check them, and/or even learn to throw HIS own to help keep the KBers kicks in line.

I look at guys like Hoost, McDnald, Williams, Rufus, etc, and thisk those guys are great fighters, and even if their hands aren't quite where a boxers would be they're still very, very good "boxers" in their own right.

[VictorCharlie]

I couldn't agree more. A top boxer against a top KBer is a great matchup. If the boxer can't get inside, the leg kicks will end him. BUT, there's no reason why the boxer couldn't learn to check them, and/or even learn to throw HIS own to help keep the KBers kicks in line.

I look at guys like Hoost, McDnald, Williams, Rufus, etc, and thisk those guys are great fighters, and even if their hands aren't quite where a boxers would be they're still very, very good "boxers" in their own right.

Hell Hath Froze Over!

[Howlin Mad Missy]

ok. If it is scored as a proper MT fight punches score less than kicks and knees hence they're often used to set up other strikes. Throws also score.

With regards to learning both, it's a different thing, you could learn boxing BUT you wouldn't want to duck under a hook because you'll get kneed in the face. If you clinch in boxing you tend to shell up if you do that - knee in the face! When you clinch in MT you straighten up.
So in one class you would be learning to do the exact opposite in the other class. Not saying you can't do both but you learn something well enough if becomes reflexive, don't want to do the wrong thing because your brain has paused

[Von Milash]

people talk like there's no crossover..like there are no subsets of skills that transcend fighting disciplines. Sorry, but that's bullshit.

[thumper]

aren't boxing stances all wrong for K-1? especially goes like Floyd he puts his front leg FAR OUT and puts his weight on it.

also that side to side head bobbing stuff is begging for a head kick.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

people talk like there's no crossover..like there are no subsets of skills that transcend fighting disciplines. Sorry, but that's bullshit.

you bob and weave you will eat knee. You mentioned a boxer getting in close and being able to work, nice idea but as soon as he's in range your MT fighter will clinch, throw, elbow, knee, it's hard to try and punch when your head is being pulled down and they're looking to knee.


I never said you couldn't crossover, I trained 3 very different martial arts at the same time and was able to blend them, not everyone can and I certainly not saying I'm special but I also know not everyone can.