Media mainstream sportscenter starts show with mma vs boxing debate

[VictorCharlie]

....oooooh a K-1 star damn sure glad he didn't destroy all the boxers he could have fought in pro boxing

Abu Dhabi is a city in the UAE!


All of this HYPE reminds me of a certain fella named Bob Sapp....too big for boxing huh? Too full of S***!

I dont know why just b/c someone chooses a different sport its b/c they are failed boxers. By that rationale all boxers are failed left handed major league pitchers with 100 mph fast balls. I mean why get punched in the head for money when you can make better money pitching for the yankees. Abu Dhabi is also the worlds top submission grappling tourney.

[VictorCharlie]

Randy Couture = Olympic greco roman alternate
Yoshida = Olympic gold medalist in Judo
Mark Hunt = K1 grand prix champ
Fedor = sambo world champ
BJ Penn = BJJ world champion
Monson= Abu Dhabi world champion
just to name a few...do some HW monkey

BTW,you made my point
A highly schooled athlete from any of the Major disciplines goes through the UFC like a knife through butter
A pure UFC fighter,goes like a knife through lead elsewhere

this pretty much makes no sense
"a pure UFC fight" is a paradox. MMA fighters at the top all came from one discipline or another, but got to the top through extensive cross training in striking(fists/knees/kicks/elbows), wrestling(takedowns, defense,body control) and submissions

Yeah your right,rather then watching highly skilled masters,Id rather watch a bunch of guys who do one thing well and nothing else worth a crap,who are only highered merc to give this farce any legitimacy dry hump each other for 29.95

Keep ignoring the facts if you want but, MMA fighters are skilled in multiple skill sets and all facets of hand to hand combat....you seem to make alot of generalizations and stereotypes about a sport you obviously dont watch and know nothing about it really kind of takes away all vailidity of your posts

[Kev]

Randy Couture = Olympic greco roman alternate
Yoshida = Olympic gold medalist in Judo
Mark Hunt = K1 grand prix champ
Fedor = sambo world champ
BJ Penn = BJJ world champion
Monson= Abu Dhabi world champion
just to name a few...do some HW monkey

Ooooooooooooo an alternate,and one of the least useful martial arts gold medalists
These guys do it for money,because there isnt as much coin in the others
Hey Kurt Engle won a gold,I guess TNA is legit too
Thats it damnit I demand a Jeff Jarrett/Bernard Hopkins fight
Sting/Klitschko it'll be the fight of the century

dont get mad b/c you made a baseless ignorant generalization and were shown to be incorrect
I used Randy b/c of his celebrity..
matt lindland is silver medalist wrestler and Dan henderson was an olympic wrestler, but with your disdain for MMA I would n't expect you to know them
Matt Hughes/Kevin Randleman/Mark Coleman were all NCAA champs and all american wrestlers as well.

Bilbo: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a type of submission wrestling

Keep making my point for me
If your skilled in a real discipline,youll annihilate UFC competition

Sorry but forgive me if I'm wrong but don't most amatuer boxers who win Olympic Gold usually go on to do pretty well in pro boxing as well?

You would EXPECT an Olympic level wrestler to do well in MMA seeing as he would base his game around that


By your logic pro boxing is dominated by a bunch of amatuer's who just happened to pick up medals in the Olympics

[Kev]

Just an interesting fact.

Ray Mercer former heavyweight world boxing champ has turned to MMA. He is currently 0-2

Matt Skelton former K-1 champ turned pro boxing at 35 is currently 20-1

Discuss.

[amat]

Bilbo I don't got much time right here, but it doesn't have to be Boxing versus MMA and I'll explain a bit here. It's going to sound absurd in hindsight when you think of wrestling in it's current state, but it's true.

Around the TV sporting revolution, the first two sports shown on TV were boxing and wrestling, as in WWF back when it wasn't known that it was fake and was treated as a sport, don't believe me check out the old issues of Sports Illustrated or the old writings of Bert Sugar.

Wrestling underwent a HUGE surge when it got off radio, and there was never talk of wrestling versus boxing even though both were combat sports. Even as late as the days of Andre the Giant, boxing and wrestling coexisted at basically the top of the United States sports spectrum, and sports like professional basketball, football, even with the star power of Wilt, Russell and Unitas were just finding their way. The point is, for a period of a good 30 years and several generations, boxing and wrestling shared the top of the mountain. Talk to an old boxing fan, and he'll always want to tell you about wrestling to. My grandpa first did it, then as I started going to boxing events more and more, I heard about old wrestlers more and more.

Then, back to the beginning, I started reading a lot of Bert Sugar's stuff prior to what he did with the Ring and Boxing Monthly, and most of it was talking about wrestling. I read old San Francisco examiner articles a lot, and if you go back to the 50's, wrestling was right there. In fact, when the light of how heavy the mob's influence on boxing was in the 50's, many found refuge in wrestling.

Honestly, it's not something you would think about now, but the notion that boxing and MMA can not coexist isn't proven. If anything, it's been proven the opposite. I'll try to provide some links if you're interested later, maybe over PM?


--------------------------------

As for what happened today on Sportscenter.

I watched this, and honestly I was fairly excited for it because I am a fan of both sports, boxing more so then MMA but I certainly appreciate it's art, and it's good to see both of them headlining Sportscenter.

Then when I saw they had Joe Rogan, who makes his points very well going up "against" Lou Dibella, I cringed. I've seen Lou's views on MMA before, and I've seen Ross Greenburg's views. Two peas in a pod. Lou is about as ignorant as Lyle (I only say you Lyle because I know you won't take offense to that) to MMA. He is right that it is apples and oranges, but then to say MMA is like human cockfighting and a sideshow act is the very ignorance that makes the UFC seem to want to eliminate boxing in America because maybe it will rid views like that of Lou's and Lyle's.

I thought Rogan argued very well. But I did take exception to a couple of his points. One in particular.

Firstly, Joe said that boxing was a "limited" form of fighting. But boxing isn't fighting, boxing is boxing. No one has ever called boxing "fighting" or "punching" because, well it's boxing. It's not limited, it is what it is. Compared to MMA it is not a more complete form of combat, but I don't think anyone is saying it is. Basically, saying boxing is limited is the equivalent of saying that football is "limited" because they don't stab each other to get the ball. Or that baseball is "limited" because the ball is not live at all times. On that front, Joe was wrong.

In Joe's defense, he probably hears far worse things trying to sell MMA as a fraud every day, things like what Lou was saying. And I truly believe Rogan is calling boxing limited just as a response to Lou. He called boxing an aspect of MMA. Sorry Joe, but MMA has some boxing aspects, not the other way around. But like I said, that probably is due to the crap he has to hear every day.

Secondly, and this is more important really and blatantly wrong I do think. About the only thing Rogan was wrong about in that five minutes on Sportscenter. When talking about the starpower in boxing, Rogan said this.

"The stars boxing has today; Oscar De La Hoya, Bernard Hopkins and Floyd Mayweather Jr., are the last of the stars boxing will ever have. All of those stars came before the resurgence of the UFC and boxing is now unable to create new ones"

Now this is just completely wrong. To start off, if he is going to say this, he is going to be speaking in the context of America. Because the UFC and MMA does not have anywhere near the influence globally that boxing does.

Miguel Cotto has a giant following in Puerto Rico. The whole damn country is behind him. They may not be to savvy on boxing, but they know who Miguel Cotto is. Acelino Freitas' wedding was one of the biggest events in Brazilian TV history.

Kassim Ouma, a marginal name in boxing, got greeted by nearly the whole damn country at the Ugandan airport on his last visit, they actually had to have a whole police force on hand at the airport and that wasn't enough as Ouma was still trounced with thousands of fans within breathing space.

I might be mistaken on this next one. But didn't either Joe Calzaghe or Ricky Hatton win British Sportsman of the Year recently in a country known worldwide for soccer fanaticism? Either could pack a soccer stadium there. Mikkell Kessler could pack a whole soccer stadium in Denmark. We had an Australian guy named Mick over for De La Hoya - Mayweather at a friend's house, he had no idea who Mayweather was. But he was a big Tony Mundine fan. And before Mundine it was Fenech. He didn't like Tszyu for some reason.

You see the point I am getting at. If those don't count for stars, then nothing does. There is an argument to be made that boxing is in competition with soccer as being the most globalized sport on the planet. I did not even mention Manny Pacquiao who is bigger then any MMA artist in MMA's backyard of Asia.

Boxing is far from dead. Though it's easy for us in America to think so, it's not. It's in a lull in America right now because boxing brass in America hasn't recovered from Hearns, Hagler and Leonard's retirement. MMA was flatlining in America, but the sport stayed afloat and thrived in Asia, then UFC came back and took America by storm. That was all in a course of 10 years. There is no reason to think boxing, the most resilient sport of all time, couldn't do the same thing. And even if it did, it would be far from dead because of how globalized it is.

Calm down boxing fans, boxing isn't going anywhere. If you want to start the search for America's next stars, well the Peterson brothers fight in 20 minutes. Who couldn't get behind two homeless adolescents finding a way out through boxing and making it big together? Who couldn't get behind that?

Boxing will make a comeback in America and I hope that when it does, it can enjoy a healthy relationship with MMA atop the combat sports for a long time to come. I wouldn't mind some mixed boxing/MMA cards just to see how that goes.

[CFH]

I don't personally like MMA very much, not nearly as much as boxing, but there is no denying that there are some very talented athletes in that sport. In its very early days, UFC reminded me of two rednecks fighting over the last bottle of Jack Daniels, it was just brutality - but it has changed fairly significantly since then.
The only MMA-type events I really have a problem with are the ones where a fighter is allowed to be hit and kicked in the head repeatedly as he lays motionless on the ground.
And saying a UFC fighter could/could not compete or win in boxing is absolutely useless - it all comes down to the fighter and his choices in the ring etc. rather than his dicipline. Though the fighter who has been schooled in a certain dicipline for a longer peroid of time will obviously have the advantage in that type of a fight.
Edit: I would also argue that there is no reason these sports cannot coexist.

[VictorCharlie]

I don't personally like MMA very much, not nearly as much as boxing, but there is no denying that there are some very talented athletes in that sport. In its very early days, UFC reminded me of two rednecks fighting over the last bottle of Jack Daniels, it was just brutality - but it has changed fairly significantly since then.
The only MMA-type events I really have a problem with are the ones where a fighter is allowed to be hit and kicked in the head repeatedly as he lays motionless on the ground.
And saying a UFC fighter could/could not compete or win in boxing is absolutely useless - it all comes down to the fighter and his choices in the ring etc. rather than his dicipline. Though the fighter who has been schooled in a certain dicipline for a longer peroid of time will obviously have the advantage in that type of a fight.

nice to see an objective viewpoint CC

[Trainer Monkey]

Randy Couture = Olympic greco roman alternate
Yoshida = Olympic gold medalist in Judo
Mark Hunt = K1 grand prix champ
Fedor = sambo world champ
BJ Penn = BJJ world champion
Monson= Abu Dhabi world champion
just to name a few...do some HW monkey

Ooooooooooooo an alternate,and one of the least useful martial arts gold medalists
These guys do it for money,because there isnt as much coin in the others
Hey Kurt Engle won a gold,I guess TNA is legit too
Thats it damnit I demand a Jeff Jarrett/Bernard Hopkins fight
Sting/Klitschko it'll be the fight of the century

dont get mad b/c you made a baseless ignorant generalization and were shown to be incorrect
I used Randy b/c of his celebrity..
matt lindland is silver medalist wrestler and Dan henderson was an olympic wrestler, but with your disdain for MMA I would n't expect you to know them
Matt Hughes/Kevin Randleman/Mark Coleman were all NCAA champs and all american wrestlers as well.

Bilbo: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a type of submission wrestling

Keep making my point for me
If your skilled in a real discipline,youll annihilate UFC competition

Sorry but forgive me if I'm wrong but don't most amatuer boxers who win Olympic Gold usually go on to do pretty well in pro boxing as well?

You would EXPECT an Olympic level wrestler to do well in MMA seeing as he would base his game around that


By your logic pro boxing is dominated by a bunch of amatuer's who just happened to pick up medals in the Olympics

Theres alot of UFC Gold Medalists are there?
Oh wait

[Trainer Monkey]

Randy Couture = Olympic greco roman alternate
Yoshida = Olympic gold medalist in Judo
Mark Hunt = K1 grand prix champ
Fedor = sambo world champ
BJ Penn = BJJ world champion
Monson= Abu Dhabi world champion
just to name a few...do some HW monkey

BTW,you made my point
A highly schooled athlete from any of the Major disciplines goes through the UFC like a knife through butter
A pure UFC fighter,goes like a knife through lead elsewhere

this pretty much makes no sense
"a pure UFC fight" is a paradox. MMA fighters at the top all came from one discipline or another, but got to the top through extensive cross training in striking(fists/knees/kicks/elbows), wrestling(takedowns, defense,body control) and submissions

Yeah your right,rather then watching highly skilled masters,Id rather watch a bunch of guys who do one thing well and nothing else worth a crap,who are only highered merc to give this farce any legitimacy dry hump each other for 29.95

Keep ignoring the facts if you want but, MMA fighters are skilled in multiple skill sets and all facets of hand to hand combat....you seem to make alot of generalizations and stereotypes about a sport you obviously dont watch and know nothing about it really kind of takes away all vailidity of your posts

Dry Anal rape,slapping,raising their leg and call it a kick,making WWE style commercials
Yeah I guess you could call it that

[VictorCharlie]

Randy Couture = Olympic greco roman alternate
Yoshida = Olympic gold medalist in Judo
Mark Hunt = K1 grand prix champ
Fedor = sambo world champ
BJ Penn = BJJ world champion
Monson= Abu Dhabi world champion
just to name a few...do some HW monkey

BTW,you made my point
A highly schooled athlete from any of the Major disciplines goes through the UFC like a knife through butter
A pure UFC fighter,goes like a knife through lead elsewhere

this pretty much makes no sense
"a pure UFC fight" is a paradox. MMA fighters at the top all came from one discipline or another, but got to the top through extensive cross training in striking(fists/knees/kicks/elbows), wrestling(takedowns, defense,body control) and submissions

Yeah your right,rather then watching highly skilled masters,Id rather watch a bunch of guys who do one thing well and nothing else worth a crap,who are only highered merc to give this farce any legitimacy dry hump each other for 29.95

Keep ignoring the facts if you want but, MMA fighters are skilled in multiple skill sets and all facets of hand to hand combat....you seem to make alot of generalizations and stereotypes about a sport you obviously dont watch and know nothing about it really kind of takes away all vailidity of your posts

Dry Anal rape,slapping,raising their leg and call it a kick,making WWE style commercials
Yeah I guess you could call it that

uhhh....what?

[Kev]

Randy Couture = Olympic greco roman alternate
Yoshida = Olympic gold medalist in Judo
Mark Hunt = K1 grand prix champ
Fedor = sambo world champ
BJ Penn = BJJ world champion
Monson= Abu Dhabi world champion
just to name a few...do some HW monkey

Ooooooooooooo an alternate,and one of the least useful martial arts gold medalists
These guys do it for money,because there isnt as much coin in the others
Hey Kurt Engle won a gold,I guess TNA is legit too
Thats it damnit I demand a Jeff Jarrett/Bernard Hopkins fight
Sting/Klitschko it'll be the fight of the century

dont get mad b/c you made a baseless ignorant generalization and were shown to be incorrect
I used Randy b/c of his celebrity..
matt lindland is silver medalist wrestler and Dan henderson was an olympic wrestler, but with your disdain for MMA I would n't expect you to know them
Matt Hughes/Kevin Randleman/Mark Coleman were all NCAA champs and all american wrestlers as well.

Bilbo: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a type of submission wrestling

Keep making my point for me
If your skilled in a real discipline,youll annihilate UFC competition

Sorry but forgive me if I'm wrong but don't most amatuer boxers who win Olympic Gold usually go on to do pretty well in pro boxing as well?

You would EXPECT an Olympic level wrestler to do well in MMA seeing as he would base his game around that


By your logic pro boxing is dominated by a bunch of amatuer's who just happened to pick up medals in the Olympics

Theres alot of UFC Gold Medalists are there?
Oh wait

Your a moron, if MMA was an Olympic sport there would be just as many winners every 4 years as boxers, it's hard to win Gold medals when the sport you compete in isn't an Olympic event

My point is that Olympic medal winners from related disciplines HAVE gone on to do well in MMA. MMA is a young growing sport. It's only been in the last 5 years that it's really taken off but trust me, in the future you can virtually guarantee that future Olympic wrestling, judo and other related sports medal winners will be going on to pursue careers in MMA and then the talent pool will really take off.

[Trainer Monkey]

Just an interesting fact.

Ray Mercer former heavyweight world boxing champ has turned to MMA. He is currently 0-2

Matt Skelton former K-1 champ turned pro boxing at 35 is currently 20-1

Discuss.

Ray Mercer should have retired 10 years ago,and Matt Skelton has fought nothing but bums

[Trainer Monkey]

Randy Couture = Olympic greco roman alternate
Yoshida = Olympic gold medalist in Judo
Mark Hunt = K1 grand prix champ
Fedor = sambo world champ
BJ Penn = BJJ world champion
Monson= Abu Dhabi world champion
just to name a few...do some HW monkey

Ooooooooooooo an alternate,and one of the least useful martial arts gold medalists
These guys do it for money,because there isnt as much coin in the others
Hey Kurt Engle won a gold,I guess TNA is legit too
Thats it damnit I demand a Jeff Jarrett/Bernard Hopkins fight
Sting/Klitschko it'll be the fight of the century

dont get mad b/c you made a baseless ignorant generalization and were shown to be incorrect
I used Randy b/c of his celebrity..
matt lindland is silver medalist wrestler and Dan henderson was an olympic wrestler, but with your disdain for MMA I would n't expect you to know them
Matt Hughes/Kevin Randleman/Mark Coleman were all NCAA champs and all american wrestlers as well.

Bilbo: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a type of submission wrestling

Keep making my point for me
If your skilled in a real discipline,youll annihilate UFC competition

Sorry but forgive me if I'm wrong but don't most amatuer boxers who win Olympic Gold usually go on to do pretty well in pro boxing as well?

You would EXPECT an Olympic level wrestler to do well in MMA seeing as he would base his game around that


By your logic pro boxing is dominated by a bunch of amatuer's who just happened to pick up medals in the Olympics

Theres alot of UFC Gold Medalists are there?
Oh wait

Your a moron, if MMA was an Olympic sport there would be just as many winners every 4 years as boxers, it's hard to win Gold medals when the sport you compete in isn't an Olympic event

My point is that Olympic medal winners from related disciplines HAVE gone on to do well in MMA. MMA is a young growing sport. It's only been in the last 5 years that it's really taken off but trust me, in the future you can virtually guarantee that future Olympic wrestling, judo and other related sports medal winners will be going on to pursue careers in MMA and then the talent pool will really take off.

Now why isnt it
I mean its such a great sport and all,youd think the committee would fall all over itself to raise it to the internationally recognised level of say,volleyball

[El Kabong]

Just an interesting fact.

Ray Mercer former heavyweight world boxing champ has turned to MMA. He is currently 0-2

Matt Skelton former K-1 champ turned pro boxing at 35 is currently 20-1

Discuss.

OLD Mercer fought Remy Bojansky....a kicker.....and some Musashi guy

Skelton hasn't fought anyone of note besides fat Danny Williams

[VictorCharlie]

Football/Rubgy/Cricket are all sports that are also not in the olympics, but rhythmic gymanstics is an olympic sport so I dont the being an olympic sport is a legit litmus test for being a real sport