Quote Originally Posted by VanChilds
Quote Originally Posted by Punisher136
What you're essentially saying when you say an mma fighter beats a boxer/kickboxer/jiu jitsu fighter under mma rules is that an mma fighter does not have enough skill to beat a guy in a single discipline and can only win if he has an advantage at one thing or another over the other guy. If it stays up the pure boxer/kickboxer/muai thai (striker) wins. If it goes down and stays there, the wrestler/jiu jitsu guy wins. Pure artists have more skill than mixed ones. FACT.
If we can all agree that most top MMA fighters were at one point dominant participants and even world champions in specific combat disciplines and that they also have become cross trained in other disciplines to be at least adequate then I dont see how you get anything factual out of your generalization. I agree that boxing is a more technical sport than MMA as a whole. If you take BJ Penn for example: he was the first non brazilian and one of the youngest ever to win the BJJ world championship, he has a very well respected standup game and a resume like no other. He is considered one of the best BJJ practitioners in the world and also top all time P4P mma fighter. Is PBF a more skilled boxer than BJ is a MMA fighter? Maybe, but not one of the HW champs is IMHO. So you really have to look at it on a one on one basis. I personally love the chess match in top MMA fights in seeing who is going to be able to make their opponent fight "their" fight. I loved watching Big Nog take a beating only to pull out an arm bar on crocop for the win, or watch Coleman dominate Williams only to eventually get KO'd. I find it hard to put any generalization to MMA fighters. They are such a myriad of people. These guys come from all walks of life and experiences. Most were great pure artists and are now well versed in multiple disciplines. As far as being more skilled than championship boxers, well like I said this has to be on a one to one comparison not as a generalization.
Some are former champs yes but how often does someone beat them at their own game? It takes less skill to win an mma match than it does a single disciplined match. Those champs were the best at their game and if they participated in matches that were shearly in their element they would win an overwheliming majority of the time. What i'm saying is when you say an MMA fighter beats a purist under MMA rules, you're stating that he has to have an advantage over the purist to beat him (basically a fighting form hes not necessarily an expert in). Is he going to beat a boxer or kickboxer standing up? No. If he gonna out wrestle a jiu jitsu champ or a collegiate all stater on the ground? No. Now i realize that some people were champs in these disciplines, so in some cases they ARE the purists in these matches. I'm still saying that having an mma ruled fight takes away from some of the skill involved in the various arts because you're basically allowing people to punch in wrestling matches and tackle in kick boxing matches. The initial idea was great and intriging but that should of been the end of it. Making a sport to see who can make a kickboxer submit and who can knockout a wrestling champ is kinda dumb IMO. I'm aware that these people are now cross trained in what they used to lack in (boxers learn wrestling and jiu jitsu fighters learn some muai thai etc.) but what is a sport where you can fight standing up or on the ground with whatever style you want to learn under a loose set (loose in the fact that there aren't rules to dicourage the usage of one style or another) of rules? It's a watered down street fight with rules and a ref. Street fights don't clearly resemble boxing or any ground art but rather a mix of them. You're watching a mix of them.

No one's gonna argue with you over the fact of wether or not theres great talent in boxings heavyweight division because there isn't. Most of them are overweight jobbers who aren't in shape and the ones that are in shape can't block and have terrible chins. Other than that you have previous greats trying to comeback and they have little shot of doing so and Vitali Klitschko.