Sorry guys, I had to post this.

[Mr. Nightmare]

I just watched MTV's top 5 M.C.'s of All-Time show. How the heck can they seriously tell me that their list ranks like this:

1- Jay-Z
2- Tupac
3- Biggie
4- Rakim
5- Nas

It makes me so sick that most of the NY so called rap media is on this guys %$#@ so hard!!! He is NOT the best of all time. Half his rhymes are old Biggie lyrics!! At best, he's equal with Nas. He's not better than him!! Nas won their battle!

[BABABOOEY]

Well, although its not a boxing post, its an interesting topic. I've long argued the point that the list of the greatest M.C.'s should START with Rakim and KRS One as No. 1 and 2, in either order, and go on from there.

The notion that Jigga is the top of all time is a joke. Successful, yes. Top 5, yes. Best ever, no.

[JonesJrMayweather]

I just watched MTV's top 5 M.C.'s of All-Time show. How the heck can they seriously tell me that their list ranks like this:

1- Jay-Z
2- Tupac
3- Biggie
4- Rakim
5- Nas

It makes me so sick that most of the NY so called rap media is on this guys %$#@ so hard!!! He is NOT the best of all time. Half his rhymes are old Biggie lyrics!! At best, he's equal with Nas. He's not better than him!! Nas won their battle!

it kills me that anybody mentions Biggie's fat a$$ at all...he's only there because of his beef with pac...I mean he put out one CD then got merc'd...he was severly overrated and Jay-Z's resonable doubt, in my lifetime, and hard knock life kill all his crap....and Naz only had one good Cd and won the rap battle with a full Jay-Z not the still hungry Jigga...

And how in the hell isn't LL cool J on there...

[Mr. Nightmare]

Oh, they had KRS on the list. . . . . . He was number six!!!

It was a group of about 10 people at a table having a discussion, and giving their reasons for voting the way they did. I didnt recognize any of them except Swaye.

Can anyone tell me, why is most of NY on Jay-Z's @#$%?

[BABABOOEY]

I cant argue w/ you mentioning LL. But is he really top 5? I guess you're saying he should have Biggie's spot?

[BABABOOEY]

I really wish I had time to fax Mr. Cee during his old school at noon show. It amazes me how everyday, no matter what era of music he's playing, he manages to get some Jay-Z in there.

And sadly, I rarely hear him play Kane, who gave him his start, and is probably a top 10 all timer.

[Poom]

it kills me that anybody mentions Biggie's fat a$$ at all...he's only there because of his beef with pac...

lol... So the fact that he put out one of the greatest albums of all time (ready to die) is not worth much to you huh.

im not out to diss jay z , as he made a great album too in the form of reasonable doubt but I dont know why you are disrespecting BIG.

[SalTheButcher]

jigga is the man

[BIG H]

From a English boy's perspective - I like


Dre
Snoop
Pac
Ice Cube
Eminem

[BIG H]

......And the greatest Rap tune ever is "New Jack Hustler" by Ice T

[JonesJrMayweather]

it kills me that anybody mentions Biggie's fat a$$ at all...he's only there because of his beef with pac...

lol... So the fact that he put out one of the greatest albums of all time (ready to die) is not worth much to you huh.

im not out to diss jay z , as he made a great album too in the form of reasonable doubt but I dont know why you are disrespecting BIG.

Let's say ready to die is good...that's one album... and life after death only had a few tracks on it not to mention it was a double disc....and he's top five alltime? That's bull$hit....I mean this whole crap about the best rapper only started after biggie and pac got killed...and it's stupid because their beef was personal and didn't anything to do with who was the better rapper...but anyway i think best to come out of NY is between LL and Jigga...and then you really can't decide because it's all opinionated, but i guarantee this, it just sounds stupid to say biggie is top 20 all-time let along top 5 when he's only had 1 album, and the other came out after he died...don't mean to diss him, but when you're that overrated it kinda puts a target on your back...

[BABABOOEY]

Well, I'll consider that Biggie had 2 albums. Not his fault he got whacked right after it dropped. But to me, I agree with you. Theres NO WAY IN THE WORLD a guy is No. 3, all time with just 2 albums under his belt. It's a discredit to Rakim's 8 albums, to KRS's 10 or 11 albums, and to LL's 11 albums. Its insulting.

And while he was witty with his words and delivery, he never took on complex issues like KRS or Rakim, or even Nas. He was all about clothes, and women in his raps. You cant be top 3 all time with that alone.

[BABABOOEY]

But now this all begs the question. If not no. 1, where should Jay-Z be on an all time list?

I'll give him top 5 status, but not no. 1.

[shza]

I just watched MTV's top 5 M.C.'s of All-Time show. How the heck can they seriously tell me that their list ranks like this:

1- Jay-Z
2- Tupac
3- Biggie
4- Rakim
5- Nas

It makes me so sick that most of the NY so called rap media is on this guys %$#@ so hard!!! He is NOT the best of all time. Half his rhymes are old Biggie lyrics!! At best, he's equal with Nas. He's not better than him!! Nas won their battle!

it kills me that anybody mentions Biggie's fat a$$ at all...he's only there because of his beef with pac...I mean he put out one CD then got merc'd...he was severly overrated and Jay-Z's resonable doubt, in my lifetime, and hard knock life kill all his crap....and Naz only had one good Cd and won the rap battle with a full Jay-Z not the still hungry Jigga...

And how in the hell isn't LL cool J on there...

That's ridiculous. Both--not just one--of Biggie's albums were classics. True, the second one had a lot of filler, but also had some blazin shit. LL gets his golden era props, but the guy was never for the true hedz from day one, and is not top 5-worthy by a long shot.

What else--despite Jay's drop in effort and quality output since Reasonable Doubt (another classic, don't even front), he *still* murdered Nas in that battle, and would do it again every time. The first Nas album is a classic--he looked like the next coming of Rakim after that--but he couldn't keep his weight up. Which is why that "one hot album every ten year average" line of Jay's is so ill--it's what everyone knows about nas.

I don't think MTV's list is too crazy, if we're limiting this to mainstream rappers. I wouldn't put Jay-Z above Biggie, might not put him over Tupac--and wouldn't put any of them above Rakim. But I think they have the right guys, wrong order--except for Nas (plenty of guys--Ghostface, Aceyalone, Big Boi, and Pharoah Monch) beat out Nas when you consider that he put out more than just Illmatic (and that the rest was pretty much consistently garbage).

[shza]

Well, I'll consider that Biggie had 2 albums. Not his fault he got whacked right after it dropped. But to me, I agree with you. Theres NO WAY IN THE WORLD a guy is No. 3, all time with just 2 albums under his belt. It's a discredit to Rakim's 8 albums, to KRS's 10 or 11 albums, and to LL's 11 albums. Its insulting.

And while he was witty with his words and delivery, he never took on complex issues like KRS or Rakim, or even Nas. He was all about clothes, and women in his raps. You cant be top 3 all time with that alone.

Nah, you should listen more. There's a lot more going on than clothes and women. The other stuff's not all as out there as it is on, say, Jay's first album, but it's there. There's a lot of storytelling, some show of vulnerability, and a subtle autobiographical picture.