Quote Originally Posted by Punisher136
Quote Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote Originally Posted by Punisher136
You have to realize its really hard to rate wlad because instead of following a lineage, you have to rate wlad like you rate liston. Liston didn't fight Marciano or any other names (established greats) from his previous era, He had to fight names that came into their own like Patterson.
I do realize that...& I see where you are coming...but I think that you should realize the first 15 or 16 words that you stated.

That being said...you do make a good valid point...you do...& it'd good for debate...so I applaude you sincerely...but I do think that you are being a bit harsh...especially comparing him to Liston.

One thing that does bother me a bit about your post is the thing about the Liston & Wlad comparison. Is it saying more that Wlad fought up & comers & bested them when they were becoming what they were or the fact that he didn't sharpen his teeth on worn talent?

I know that that sounds harsh...but honestly...I think that Wlad does deserve the benefit of the doubt...no matter how many times I've had to give it.

You feel me?
I'm not saying wlad is liston i'm saying that he's like liston because instead of fighting established greats, he's fighting people that made their own names in a different era so you kinda have to clean the slate and judge them on a whole different basis and thats hard for people to do objectively.

Quote Originally Posted by Lyle
Yes "everytime"....3 times in over 50 fights that's like saying everytime Ali was on the rise he lost.

I'm not saying Wlad is as great as Ali but Wlad is a good fighter in this era and he'll be considered one of the best of the post Ali era...after his career is over I'll put him up there with Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, and Bowe
that "everytime" doesn't mean he always lost, that meant that everytime people where 100% sold on him and wrote his last loss off as a fluke he dropped the ball and made people go crazy. As i've said before he's doing better now than he has during any previous stretch of his career but he's still wlad and you never know.
Gotcha...on both...but I still say that he's worth giving the benefit of the doubt.