Holding

[Klitsfan]

Ali got away with a lot of holding and grabbing behind the neck more so than others but the refs never wanted to take points away from him because of who he was, it was a double standard.

[Lords Gym]

What is the deal with excessive holding not being penalized

Is it legal or illegal? Obviously its legal, I mean look at how rarely a guy is warned, not penalized, warned. It hardly ever happens, much less a guy being penalized, that pretty much never happens.

Its just odd, boxing has a rule which is totally ignored. I can't think of anything comparable in other sports. And strangely not many people seem to care, I can't think of many people on here that bitch about it, except for maybe LordsGym, unless Ricky Hatton or John Ruiz or maybe Wlad are fighting. But it happens a lot. Look at a guy like Zahir Raheem, its a disgrace to the sport. Its pretty much saying, look I can't fight worth a shit on the inside, so instead of learning how to fight, I'll just excessively hold and referees won't give a shit.

This is one of my major problems with boxing, to me its as big a problem as any. Would boxing not be more exciting if excessive holding was penalized, seems pretty simple, it would be.

And before Wlad fans protest, the fighter that pissed me off last night on this was Travis Simms.

Good post CC # 687 . Nothing like excessive holding to ruin a good match. it’s a flagrant foul that should be penalized more , it simply snuffs the momentum of a match, . Jay Nady and few others refs are attuned to the situation, they do a great job policing it, others need to follow suit.

To me holding is a foul when its used as a strategic tactic, another words when a pattern start to develop . John Ruiz , any Many Steward trained fighter.. Manny actually teaches his fighters to do this, He single handily ruined the Heavyweight division as far as I’m concerned. . I noticed a lot of holding in watching Simms fight Saturday night as well . , Travis fought like a snuff queen. , holding every time his opponent moved in. Glad the ref finally got him for it. a frustrating watch. Sometimes a fighter's got to complain to the ref about it. If you bring it to his attention he will start taking notice of it.

As for Ricky Hatton , I don’t see it as a tactic to stop the action, It’s more a by product of jockeying for position on the inside . Rick is just looking to bring his opponents hands down and make punching opportunities for himself, its not to stop the action. Ricky is out to destroy his opponent every minute of every round

[amat]

Here's my thing with holding.

It happens a lot, and there are some guys who when they do it it doesn't really bother me. Hatton or Wlad for instance. Hatton, imo, doesn't initiate holds half as much as people say he does and he still punches a lot from the clinch and with the exception of Urango and the first against Castillo, it doesn't take the referee coming in there a whole lot to break it up. He could definitely tone it down but I think he might get a little to much flack for it.

Wlad is a long puncher, he can't punch on the inside worth a damn because he's so big and he has enough power and is exciting enough to be given a pass for me.

ZAHIR RAHEEM. Now that is a guy, who, if he doesn't hold, doesn't win the fight. He wins fights by refs not enforcing a rule. That's what he does. He should have lost his last fight versus...Cruz Carbajal? Or Cristobal Cruz, I always get the two confused. But either way, he should have lost the one to the one who isn't good. I don't see how anyone can be a fan of him.

It's the John Ruiz type of thing. He wins because he negates his opponent's offense by holding. Of course you are going to win rounds when you throw from the outside then eliminate your opponent's opportunity to punch. It's completely against everything that is right really, and at midnight I'm actually pissed about this. Cory Spinks holds his fair share, but you can see that he actually tries to get outside with his feet too, and most of the times he does. An in and out fighter is fine, an in and hug fighter is WRONG.

I doubt I'll ever watch Raheem again. He's on that list with Audley and that's it. Ruiz was close to it but he actually tried to make things exciting versus Toney.

I absolutely hate it. It's one thing when you have two guys sluggish in the late rounds and they both hold on for a bit. But when a boxer has a set strategy to hold, that's when things get bad. I think it's the ABC? The commission that deals with referee and judges training and licensing. THEY NEED TO COME DOWN ON THIS.

One of my favorite refs, Frank Cappocino (which I probably spelled wrong), does take points and he tells fighters before hand that he won't tolerate holding. Frank Cappocino has probably the most exciting fights in the sport because he is such a good ref and in New England where you have a bunch of infighters, that they aren't going to hold.

I didn't see the Simms bout and I'm glad I didn't. Jermain Taylor was bad about it versus Ouma too. Manny Steward's boxers always hold to much though.

[El Kabong]

ruiz is the the only fighter off the top of my head that holds to the point off pissing me off.

Yeah he is horrid

I think Floyd is annoying just because sometimes he won't engage in fighting at all he'll just move....which is just as bad as holding.
Anything that keeps punches from being thrown is bad.

Moving is just as bad as holding?? Using footwork and ring generalship to create space equates to being no more entertaining then mauling and hugging in your book huh Lyle??

Let me specify.....moving WITHOUT THROWING PUNCHES

[OumaFan]

Ali got away with a lot of holding and grabbing behind the neck more so than others but the refs never wanted to take points away from him because of who he was, it was a double standard.

If you actually think about it, did Muhammad Ali have an exciting style in itself?

If he wasn't Ali, and wasn't so charismatic, would people have found him as interesting. He moved a ton, held, relied so much on the jab, right hand.

Not saying I thought he was a boring fighter but so many people seem to just want all out, face first, power punching action fighters and he didn't fit the bill.

CC to Lords and Amat too, good posts. I agree that while I don't love to watch Hatton his style is not as bad as some people's and not as bad some make it out to be. Still don't love to watch him fight, a bit too much grappling.

Amat, it was Cristobal Cruz, Cruz Carbajal's actually allright, and that was the thing that pissed me off is that the Cruz that fought Raheem was so limited and Raheem still turned it into a stinkfest. Horrible.

[J_Undisputed]

Its hard to keep fighters from holding because when you throw and land or miss and find yourself in a vulnerable position, your first instinct is to lock the person up to make sure youre not caught with something that lays you out. But once you do that .. then what.

It becomes a problem that the honor system doesnt work anymore. Noone lets go because they dont trust the other guy to break clean. I think the sport can do without the rabbit punches to the back of the head or the kidney shots that follow.

If the holding isnt policed, sooner or later the issue starts to weigh in with the fighters. While its not within the rules of the sport, its always nice to see a "serial clincher" hurled to the mat by an opponent.

Perhaps a count system needs to be instituted. When 2 boxers clinch, they have 3 seconds to break clean (ref counts), if a fighter is percieved as not making the effort to break while the other one is... he is warned and the fighters are separated. Subsequently whichever fighter is viewed as the non breaker for the round, loses a point at the end of a round.

[The Boxer]

i remember when jirov (what happen to that guy) almost KO mesi at the end of there fight. Manny was yellin at Mesi to hold on hold on

[slk123]

You can't take away holding or holding and hitting for that matter. If you do, Lennox Lewis wouldn't be put on such a pedestal. A big amen brother to Lyle, Mayweather is another boxer who should learn what the "fight game" is all about.

[Canvasback]

Even though the ref took a point away from Simms for holding he still got away with a lot of holding.

[sexydarin]

Keep taking away points. That's the only thing that will stop it. If a fighter loses a fight because of points taken off for excessibe holding then so be it.

[Tysonbruno]

I hate it when Ricky Hatton does all that holding it frustrates the hell out of me he should just fight its not like he's holding because he's hurt.

[El Kabong]

....I only hope they start taking points away for guys not punching

[fluffyninja]

Frank Bruno was another who wouldn't have won against Oliver Mccall without holding , at the top level against the likes of Tyson , Witherspoon , Lewis and Mccall he did it a lot and even though we don't really like the tactic you know all us brits were screaming "HOLD ON FRANK" at the top of our voices in the 12th round of that fight !

Annoying that Hatton has started to do it much more I thought he was more talented than that.

[RP33]

Hatton holds a ridiculous amount, and if there was a ref in there warning and deducting points early in the match it would do a GREAT thing for boxing.. Taylor held a LOT in the second hopkins fight, i didn't see all of the first one so i can't talk about that one.. But Hatton is probably the one who i've noticed it the worst in... Calzaghe also does that little hold and punch thing.. he holds one of your arms with his right hand so that you cant use it, and hits you with his left while clinched.
What are the exact rules? what is allowed and what is not?.. i mean when you look back when the heavyweight division was the big thing with Tyson/holyfield/lewis etc.. you only saw holding after a few flurries of punching as a clinch, and then towards the end of the fight when fatigue set in.. you didn't see it used as a tactic. Refs NEED to take charge.

[Canvasback]

I can understand using a clinch when a fighter is rocked so maybe they have a few seconds to recover. I don't understand these guys, Ruiz, Simms, Hatton, who throw a punch or two and grab ahold of their opponent. I remember a guy in the 70's named Ronnie Harris who threw one punch and then held every single time throughout a 15 round fight. At the time I thought he shouldn't even be allowed into the ring. Refs need to start taking points away from guys who do this. If they want to punch and hold onto one another they should go to the UFC.