Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
If you look at any long standing champ,there'll be a guy on the list and youll look at his record,and find yourself saying "Huh,he looks pretty good"then you look at his record,and hes completely tanked after that fight.
A good example Rudi Lubbers,he was 22-1 when he fought Ali
He ended up 29-8
Is the guy exposed?
Mentally damaged?
Whats your opinion on why guys tank like that
I'll be honest I have never heard of Lubbers. For the sake of the thread I took a look at him. And yes he was 22-1 when he went into the Ali fight. I will only respond about him since his name was brought up.

The answer to this question in this case is fairly simple IMO. Only 6 of those 22 wins were against guys that had winning records themselves. 8-3, 10-6, 8-5, & 5-4 were four of the six. No disrespect to those guys but that's not gonna get u ready for Ali.

His biggest test & win up to the Bugner loss (his only loss before Ali) was a 42-8 -- 12 year veteran named Del Papa (w 10 rds pts). Might not look so bad until you factor in the fact that Del Papa only fought 4 times (2-2) after their encounter. Del Papa's last 7= 2-5 having been KO'd 2x's. His 2 wins that I referred to were against 11-32 & 4-14 opponents.

After the Ali fight, Lubber's had already been to the mountain top & was matched much tougher. He went 7-6 in his last 13. Losing to opponents with records like 28-1, 11-0, 32-6, & 30-5 (4 of the 6 losses). U get the point. 3 of his 7 wins, vs 9-9, 14-10, & 11-12.

Conclusion= Lubbers was never a world class threat. He was a guy who was obviously matched carefully until he got his shot. Good for him.

Not all will be the same reason as Lubbers. But IMO it usually will not be something as simple as "lost confidence" "mental damage" & definitely not the "exposed" theory.

Lubbers was always the same fighter. For the most part he was actually pretty consistent from the beginning to the end of his career. He beat most guys with losing records & lost to most guys with winning records. IMO this is the case more often than not.

A little long winded for me. I need a break.