Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?

[VictorCharlie]

I think with his accomplishments as a MW alone give him consideration as an ATG...Now with a onesided demolition of Tarver and close but definitive win over one of the most technical fighters of his era I dont know how he isn't in a top 15 P4P argument...He is the most dominant MW since Hagler, he beat two of the three best WW's of his time in ODH and Tito, beat the best Jr MW and LHW and if he does beat the Calzaghe/Kessler winner then I dont know how he isn't mentioned with the likes of SRL etc.

[Peter Plys 44]

Ideas? Does B Hop move top3? How far does Winky drop?

Neither of them should be in the p4p top10, but they have US passports

[Trainer Monkey]

Ideas? Does B Hop move top3? How far does Winky drop?

Neither of them should be in the p4p top10, but they have US passports

Im sure your top 10 reads like this
Daniel Thorpe
Daniel Walker
Robert Burton
Craig Lynch
Paul Lomax
Jed Tytler
Peter Dunn
Matt Scriven
Martin Marshall
Keith Elwood

[Preme]

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

[Trainer Monkey]

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged

[Preme]

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged

Bernard hopkins talsk about fighting everyone and hardly any of them come off... All hopkins had to do to fight jones was just step up and take the 40% - there are just 2 simple reasons why hopkins didnt fight jones IMo and they are A) he new he would not beat him and rather stayed in a weak devision and make his money there or B) he really did think he was entitled to a 50-50 split, even tho jones had already beat him with one hand and was a 3 weight undisouted world champion, and all hopkins had done was beat tito...

I honestly don't know what one i would go for? I men Hopkins rather stayed at Mw fighting 'decent; fighters for years after he beat tito, all along he was making fuck all? there were fihts he went into in his home state of PA wher ehe didnt even know how much he was walking away with, wasn't he making under a mil for one or two fights, when he was the undisputed Mw champ? he choose that over $3m pay days with joe, a chance to become a 2 devision WC, or 40% of RJJ, and that would of been easily around 5 mill at that time??

[Gandalf]

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

CC, that is an honest appraisal. Im a big Hopkins fan and have supported him in every one of his fights, but I think some are going a little overboard in his rating as an ATG. Hopkins at middleweight was dominant but as you say, his 2 big wins were against men coming up from lower weights.

His recent career has been calculated very well. Of course Hopkins has needed to be in top shape, but he did nothing to Tarver that Jones Jr could not have done if he hadnt been so gun shy. And Winky was fighting almost 2 weight groups outside what he last fought at. Hopkins knew Winky couldnt hurt him.

Im not trying to be overly cynical because I like Hopkins a lot, but a little balance is needed.

[Preme]

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

CC, that is an honest appraisal. Im a big Hopkins fan and have supported him in every one of his fights, but I think some are going a little overboard in his rating as an ATG. Hopkins at middleweight was dominant but as you say, his 2 big wins were against men coming up from lower weights.

His recent career has been calculated very well. Of course Hopkins has needed to be in top shape, but he did nothing to Tarver that Jones Jr could not have done if he hadnt been so gun shy. And Winky was fighting almost 2 weight groups outside what he last fought at. Hopkins knew Winky couldnt hurt him.

Im not trying to be overly cynical because I like Hopkins a lot, but a little balance is needed.

CC back!

I have always liked hopkins in the ring, not a fan of him outside it personally, but in the ring he is a clever exp fighter, he adapted well as he aged... i just don't see him in the top 20's, 30's just yet

[No Contest]

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall

Dont underestimate bitter coffee, that throws my whole day off...if it was bitter coffee I cant blame Winky for losing.

[Trainer Monkey]

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged

Bernard hopkins talsk about fighting everyone and hardly any of them come off... All hopkins had to do to fight jones was just step up and take the 40% - there are just 2 simple reasons why hopkins didnt fight jones IMo and they are A) he new he would not beat him and rather stayed in a weak devision and make his money there or B) he really did think he was entitled to a 50-50 split, even tho jones had already beat him with one hand and was a 3 weight undisouted world champion, and all hopkins had done was beat tito...

I honestly don't know what one i would go for? I men Hopkins rather stayed at Mw fighting 'decent; fighters for years after he beat tito, all along he was making F*** all? there were fihts he went into in his home state of PA wher ehe didnt even know how much he was walking away with, wasn't he making under a mil for one or two fights, when he was the undisputed Mw champ? he choose that over $3m pay days with joe, a chance to become a 2 devision WC, or 40% of RJJ, and that would of been easily around 5 mill at that time??

"Ive done that before,why do I need to do it again"-Roy Jones Jr when he still had a belt
"He should take %40"-Roy Jones Jr when he didnt have a belt and Bernard was undisputed
"Ill fight him anywhere"-Roy Jones Jr now that nobody cares

[Preme]

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged

Bernard hopkins talsk about fighting everyone and hardly any of them come off... All hopkins had to do to fight jones was just step up and take the 40% - there are just 2 simple reasons why hopkins didnt fight jones IMo and they are A) he new he would not beat him and rather stayed in a weak devision and make his money there or B) he really did think he was entitled to a 50-50 split, even tho jones had already beat him with one hand and was a 3 weight undisouted world champion, and all hopkins had done was beat tito...

I honestly don't know what one i would go for? I men Hopkins rather stayed at Mw fighting 'decent; fighters for years after he beat tito, all along he was making F*** all? there were fihts he went into in his home state of PA wher ehe didnt even know how much he was walking away with, wasn't he making under a mil for one or two fights, when he was the undisputed Mw champ? he choose that over $3m pay days with joe, a chance to become a 2 devision WC, or 40% of RJJ, and that would of been easily around 5 mill at that time??

"Ive done that before,why do I need to do it again"-Roy Jones Jr when he still had a belt
"He should take %40"-Roy Jones Jr when he didnt have a belt and Bernard was undisputed
"Ill fight him anywhere"-Roy Jones Jr now that nobody cares

I dunno what your on about, but you claim hopkins called him out? after hopkins beat Daniels there was a Tv link up with RJJ in his changing room just before he was going out to defend HIS WBC, WBA, IBF, IBO, WBF, IBA, NBA, - during that hopkins wanted roy to come down in weight, as well as fight for a 50-50 split...

[Gandalf]

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

CC, that is an honest appraisal. Im a big Hopkins fan and have supported him in every one of his fights, but I think some are going a little overboard in his rating as an ATG. Hopkins at middleweight was dominant but as you say, his 2 big wins were against men coming up from lower weights.

His recent career has been calculated very well. Of course Hopkins has needed to be in top shape, but he did nothing to Tarver that Jones Jr could not have done if he hadnt been so gun shy. And Winky was fighting almost 2 weight groups outside what he last fought at. Hopkins knew Winky couldnt hurt him.

Im not trying to be overly cynical because I like Hopkins a lot, but a little balance is needed.

CC back!

I have always liked hopkins in the ring, not a fan of him outside it personally, but in the ring he is a clever exp fighter, he adapted well as he aged... i just don't see him in the top 20's, 30's just yet

He is a quality fighter and I would never knock that because I do have the utmost respect for him as a fighter. But if that middleweight reign is picked apart it can be seen that apart from the 2 junior middleweights moving up that there is a lot of filler there too. Hopkins has all the skills in the world but has calcualated his career a little too well. It only came a unstuck with Taylor and thats when he jumped up completely.

[Trainer Monkey]

After he beat Ruiz Jones was asked about Hoopkins that was his response
After he lost to Tarver the second was his response
Now that nobody cares,Roy seems reall eager to fight either B-hop,or Calzeghe for that matter,but nobody cares anymore
Hey,what do Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson both have in common,other then beating Roy Jones Jr?

[Tito BHB]

Why have the topics been merged?

They were both different topics..

One was about current P4P and the other his all time standing regardind greatness...

Would rather the titles were just changed to make them more clear..Now its just a jumble

[Gandalf]

Why have the topics been merged?

They were both different topics..

One was about current P4P and the other his all time standing regardind greatness...

Would rather the titles were just changed to make them more clear..Now its just a jumble

I dont think anything has been merged. I think its just gone on a tangent and now seems like two different threads in one

Revised posting.....yes, it all seems merged.