UFO's & Ghosts

[Andre]

It's called a dream.

You could be right. I don't assume it's a ghost or anything just something that doesn't usually happen to me that was weird. I won't try to say I KNOW something like that for a fact -

For the same reason though I don't know why you are so sure of this:

[b]Surely as only man is supposed to have a spirit

Do you really believe that? I was brought up on a farm and have had many pets. As a child I had a horse which was 15 years older than me and you could tell because of the way she was extra careful not to hurt me while she wiped my older bros off on tree branches.

Dogs will often protect their owners out of what I think is affection. So why would these creatures which are often fairly intelligent and emotional not have souls. Where's the evidence for something like that in anything we see in everyday life?

I do think some people don't have souls. Sick child killers etc. People incapable of feeling guilt or compassion who get a thrill out of doing things which are incomprehensible to most people. I guess it depends on what you call a 'soul'.

I know what you are saying. I guess I just subscribe to the biblical belief that God made man in His own image.

'His own image' has to be mutidimentional when you feel out the truth surely?

Instead of reading what the evil Emperor of the Universal Roman Church shaped into the New testement into to suit themselves and their world domination.
The burned and killed anyone who wouldnt operate under their own Catholic guidlines for hundreds of years you know!
They rewrote and hid so much of the true way and they still do.


Animals have primarily a unity consiousness ,we have individualized consiussness by choice and have to eventually become accountable through that choice. Some ancient tribes still have unity consiousness,this isnt to say that they are soul less!!!
The difference between the two things are vast.The imature spiritual churches and their leaders dont even know where their own soul resides in their own bodies let alone how to form control over their consiusness or its levels through it!

Some animals can fall into the higher vibrationary love experience with owners and then share your levels with you or other dogs /people in those moments.


Some people can only see out of one eye,some out of two ,others out of their third eyes.

Some only out of their brown eye and their words follow suit.

Then there is a mixture of all the above with all the false and true claims in between usually to make money from or to the reverse extreme ;to protect a false sense of security in only the physical realm.
At the end of the day everything outside and inside of us is energy vibrating at different rates. light speed is NOT constant depending on where you stand and there are senses available to us that allow us to feel ,see and hear such energies if you wish to exersise towards them.

[Scrap]

I like it cc

[Kev]

It's called a dream.

You could be right. I don't assume it's a ghost or anything just something that doesn't usually happen to me that was weird. I won't try to say I KNOW something like that for a fact -

For the same reason though I don't know why you are so sure of this:

[b]Surely as only man is supposed to have a spirit

Do you really believe that? I was brought up on a farm and have had many pets. As a child I had a horse which was 15 years older than me and you could tell because of the way she was extra careful not to hurt me while she wiped my older bros off on tree branches.

Dogs will often protect their owners out of what I think is affection. So why would these creatures which are often fairly intelligent and emotional not have souls. Where's the evidence for something like that in anything we see in everyday life?

I do think some people don't have souls. Sick child killers etc. People incapable of feeling guilt or compassion who get a thrill out of doing things which are incomprehensible to most people. I guess it depends on what you call a 'soul'.

I know what you are saying. I guess I just subscribe to the biblical belief that God made man in His own image.

'His own image' has to be mutidimentional when you feel out the truth surely?

Instead of reading what the evil Emperor of the Universal Roman Church shaped into the New testement into to suit themselves and their world domination.
The burned and killed anyone who wouldnt operate under their own Catholic guidlines for hundreds of years you know!
They rewrote and hid so much of the true way and they still do.


Animals have primarily a unity consiousness ,we have individualized consiussness by choice and have to eventually become accountable through that choice. Some ancient tribes still have unity consiousness,this isnt to say that they are soul less!!!
The difference between the two things are vast.The imature spiritual churches and their leaders dont even know where their own soul resides in their own bodies let alone how to form control over their consiusness or its levels through it!

Some animals can fall into the higher vibrationary love experience with owners and then share your levels with you or other dogs /people in those moments.


Some people can only see out of one eye,some out of two ,others out of their third eyes.

Some only out of their brown eye and their words follow suit.

Then there is a mixture of all the above with all the false and true claims in between usually to make money from or to the reverse extreme ;to protect a false sense of security in only the physical realm.
At the end of the day everything outside and inside of us is energy vibrating at different rates. light speed is NOT constant depending on where you stand and there are senses available to us that allow us to feel ,see and hear such energies if you wish to exersise towards them.

Hmm somebody has been reading the Celestine Prophecy I see. To be honest I hate New Age thinking with a passion. I don't know why the Catholic Church came into this, the contents of the bible is affirmed by the Jewish Torah and even the Quran in it's most signficant parts, the Catholic Church certainly don't have a monopoly on it.

The idea of animals having a higher vibrationary love experience as you put it is one of the reasons I hate this New Age stuff so much as it de-emphisises the significance of mankind within creation and reduces us to the status of highly evolved animal.

Ultimately any belief system is a matter of faith and I cannot convince why my own viewpoint is better than yours but this New Age white shaminism explains absolutely nothing and just introduces loads of pseudobabble and hocus terms to appease the 20 th century mindset and obsession with psychology and hippie spirituality.

It is entirely a temporal belief system, mostly concocted by stealing ideas from native Ameircan indians and other tribal societies whilst completely ignoring or misinterperating other aspects of tribal belief so that most tribal societes consider this new age thinking to be a blasphamous perversion of their own belief systems.

I think more than any other belief systems new age is very much a product of its times, beginning with the drug culture of the sixties and guys like Timothy Leary and now advocated with an attempt at scientific credibility under the likes of Deepak Chopra. I actually believe this is one kind of religion that will die out in our own lifetimes.

[Sharla]

The idea of animals having a higher vibrationary love experience as you put it is one of the reasons I hate this New Age stuff so much as it de-emphisises the significance of mankind within creation and reduces us to the status of highly evolved animal.

I'm not a religious person - I don't doubt there is some kind of higher power but I don't believe it's something any human interpretation could ever summarize. Why would we ever be able to understand in it's entirity how and why life came to exist and why do we need to? Is it not enough to just make the most of your life and to try to be someone who is morally responsible?

So without disrespecting anyone's religious beliefs (because I won't argue for or against it) is it so bad that we might only have the same status as a highly evolved animal? Why do we need to feel superior to other living things?

Even if you do believe we are created in god's image part of the recognized definition of 'being only human' is that we are far from perfect. If we know our limitations as a race would we really need to feel ashamed of NOT being spiritually better than animals? I just don't see the shame in that myself.

I think probably a heard of cattle would believe they are spiritually more connected and aware than humans because they can only look at life through a cow's eyes and can not see first hand what life is through our eyes. Are we a little silly thinking we can sum up what sort of spiritual experience any animal has in life.

[Andre]

The idea of animals having a higher vibrationary love experience as you put it is one of the reasons I hate this New Age stuff so much as it de-emphisises the significance of mankind within creation and reduces us to the status of highly evolved animal.

I'm not a religious person - I don't doubt there is some kind of higher power but I don't believe it's something any human interpretation could ever summarize. Why would we ever be able to understand in it's entirity how and why life came to exist and why do we need to? Is it not enough to just make the most of your life and to try to be someone who is morally responsible?

So without disrespecting anyone's religious beliefs (because I won't argue for or against it) is it so bad that we might only have the same status as a highly evolved animal? Why do we need to feel superior to other living things?

Even if you do believe we are created in god's image part of the recognized definition of 'being only human' is that we are far from perfect. If we know our limitations as a race would we really need to feel ashamed of NOT being spiritually better than animals? I just don't see the shame in that myself.

I think probably a heard of cattle would believe they are spiritually more connected and aware than humans because they can only look at life through a cow's eyes and can not see first hand what life is through our eyes. Are we a little silly thinking we can sum up what sort of spiritual experience any animal has in life.

Now theres a balanced point of view from one who is obviusly not one eyed.cc 4 u

[Andre]

It's called a dream.

You could be right. I don't assume it's a ghost or anything just something that doesn't usually happen to me that was weird. I won't try to say I KNOW something like that for a fact -

For the same reason though I don't know why you are so sure of this:

[b]Surely as only man is supposed to have a spirit

Do you really believe that? I was brought up on a farm and have had many pets. As a child I had a horse which was 15 years older than me and you could tell because of the way she was extra careful not to hurt me while she wiped my older bros off on tree branches.

Dogs will often protect their owners out of what I think is affection. So why would these creatures which are often fairly intelligent and emotional not have souls. Where's the evidence for something like that in anything we see in everyday life?

I do think some people don't have souls. Sick child killers etc. People incapable of feeling guilt or compassion who get a thrill out of doing things which are incomprehensible to most people. I guess it depends on what you call a 'soul'.

I know what you are saying. I guess I just subscribe to the biblical belief that God made man in His own image.

'His own image' has to be mutidimentional when you feel out the truth surely?

Instead of reading what the evil Emperor of the Universal Roman Church shaped into the New testement into to suit themselves and their world domination.
The burned and killed anyone who wouldnt operate under their own Catholic guidlines for hundreds of years you know!
They rewrote and hid so much of the true way and they still do.


Animals have primarily a unity consiousness ,we have individualized consiussness by choice and have to eventually become accountable through that choice. Some ancient tribes still have unity consiousness,this isnt to say that they are soul less!!!
The difference between the two things are vast.The imature spiritual churches and their leaders dont even know where their own soul resides in their own bodies let alone how to form control over their consiusness or its levels through it!

Some animals can fall into the higher vibrationary love experience with owners and then share your levels with you or other dogs /people in those moments.


Some people can only see out of one eye,some out of two ,others out of their third eyes.

Some only out of their brown eye and their words follow suit.

Then there is a mixture of all the above with all the false and true claims in between usually to make money from or to the reverse extreme ;to protect a false sense of security in only the physical realm.
At the end of the day everything outside and inside of us is energy vibrating at different rates. light speed is NOT constant depending on where you stand and there are senses available to us that allow us to feel ,see and hear such energies if you wish to exersise towards them.

Hmm somebody has been reading the Celestine Prophecy I see. To be honest I hate New Age thinking with a passion. I don't know why the Catholic Church came into this, the contents of the bible is affirmed by the Jewish Torah and even the Quran in it's most signficant parts, the Catholic Church certainly don't have a monopoly on it.

The idea of animals having a higher vibrationary love experience as you put it is one of the reasons I hate this New Age stuff so much as it de-emphisises the significance of mankind within creation and reduces us to the status of highly evolved animal.

Ultimately any belief system is a matter of faith and I cannot convince why my own viewpoint is better than yours but this New Age white shaminism explains absolutely nothing and just introduces loads of pseudobabble and hocus terms to appease the 20 th century mindset and obsession with psychology and hippie spirituality.

It is entirely a temporal belief system, mostly concocted by stealing ideas from native Ameircan indians and other tribal societies whilst completely ignoring or misinterperating other aspects of tribal belief so that most tribal societes consider this new age thinking to be a blasphamous perversion of their own belief systems.

I think more than any other belief systems new age is very much a product of its times, beginning with the drug culture of the sixties and guys like Timothy Leary and now advocated with an attempt at scientific credibility under the likes of Deepak Chopra. I actually believe this is one kind of religion that will die out in our own lifetimes.

Good debate,there is some truth in some of the things you say. cc to you too.

[Kev]

The idea of animals having a higher vibrationary love experience as you put it is one of the reasons I hate this New Age stuff so much as it de-emphisises the significance of mankind within creation and reduces us to the status of highly evolved animal.

I'm not a religious person - I don't doubt there is some kind of higher power but I don't believe it's something any human interpretation could ever summarize. Why would we ever be able to understand in it's entirity how and why life came to exist and why do we need to? Is it not enough to just make the most of your life and to try to be someone who is morally responsible?

So without disrespecting anyone's religious beliefs (because I won't argue for or against it) is it so bad that we might only have the same status as a highly evolved animal? Why do we need to feel superior to other living things?

Even if you do believe we are created in god's image part of the recognized definition of 'being only human' is that we are far from perfect. If we know our limitations as a race would we really need to feel ashamed of NOT being spiritually better than animals? I just don't see the shame in that myself.

I think probably a heard of cattle would believe they are spiritually more connected and aware than humans because they can only look at life through a cow's eyes and can not see first hand what life is through our eyes. Are we a little silly thinking we can sum up what sort of spiritual experience any animal has in life.

Now theres a balanced point of view from one who is obviusly not one eyed.cc 4 u

You know I do agree 100% with where you are coming from. I completely agree that man starting with only himself as a reference point will never be able to come to understand the mysteries of life and the meaning of it all. Many philosophers have tried, Kant, Hegal, Descartes to name just a few all attempted to provide a rational total world view and completely failed.

No man, no matter how wise will ever be able to solve the ultimate God riddle, not even our own Punisher on this very forum!

But as a believer in the bible I do believe that God is knowable because he has revealed Himself and made Himslef known to us. Before you think I'm getting preachy, I'm not, I'm a non practising Christian and will be recanting all my sins on my deathbed at the last minute as I imagine most other people do.

But I do think that in order to have any discussion with anybody about religion every person needs to have read the bible from cover to cover as it's the only religious book that doesn't claim human authorship but rather claims to be the very word of God. And also, and this is why it has fascinated me for most of my life, unlike all other religious texts the bible is grounded in real history.

God made a covenant with Abraham and said that he would build from him a nation, a peculiar people that would stand out apart from the world. These people, the Jews then had their entire history laid out in the first books of the Old Testament and of course they are still very much alive today, still the scourge of much of the earth and still at war with their Arab brothers the Muslims, the descendents of Abraham's first son Ishmael.

It has always annoyed me beyond all reason when in today's modern secular thinking science is seen as dealing with empirical facts and testable data whereas religion is seen as (to quote Soren Kieggagard) a leap of faith, a suspension of belief as it were, against all reason.

However this is completely and utterly untrue. The bible is the most 'reasonable' book ever written, it is laid out in actual history and anybody who actually wants to take the time and read and explore for themselves will see that. The death and resurection of Christ are actual events in history. Although one cannot make the claim that Jesus definitely rose from the dead, it is indisputable that his followers who saw him die, saw him nailed to a cross and then saw him buried in a cave believed with all their heart that they actually saw him raised again, spoke with him, ate with him and watched him ascend into heaven. They believed this so much that they all willingly went to their deaths proclaiming this.

It is also indisputably true that Jesus' entire life and ministry was prophecised hundreds of years before his birth.


So anyways that is why I don't swing with the animal consciousness thing, not because of my own reason or opinions but that the God of the bible whom I believe in told us that we are unique in all creation and therfore fundamentally different to the animal kingdom.

But ultimately this is all a matter of belief either way, it just boils down to what you base your beliefs upon.

[Kev]

It's called a dream.

You could be right. I don't assume it's a ghost or anything just something that doesn't usually happen to me that was weird. I won't try to say I KNOW something like that for a fact -

For the same reason though I don't know why you are so sure of this:

[b]Surely as only man is supposed to have a spirit

Do you really believe that? I was brought up on a farm and have had many pets. As a child I had a horse which was 15 years older than me and you could tell because of the way she was extra careful not to hurt me while she wiped my older bros off on tree branches.

Dogs will often protect their owners out of what I think is affection. So why would these creatures which are often fairly intelligent and emotional not have souls. Where's the evidence for something like that in anything we see in everyday life?

I do think some people don't have souls. Sick child killers etc. People incapable of feeling guilt or compassion who get a thrill out of doing things which are incomprehensible to most people. I guess it depends on what you call a 'soul'.

I know what you are saying. I guess I just subscribe to the biblical belief that God made man in His own image.

'His own image' has to be mutidimentional when you feel out the truth surely?

Instead of reading what the evil Emperor of the Universal Roman Church shaped into the New testement into to suit themselves and their world domination.
The burned and killed anyone who wouldnt operate under their own Catholic guidlines for hundreds of years you know!
They rewrote and hid so much of the true way and they still do.


Animals have primarily a unity consiousness ,we have individualized consiussness by choice and have to eventually become accountable through that choice. Some ancient tribes still have unity consiousness,this isnt to say that they are soul less!!!
The difference between the two things are vast.The imature spiritual churches and their leaders dont even know where their own soul resides in their own bodies let alone how to form control over their consiusness or its levels through it!

Some animals can fall into the higher vibrationary love experience with owners and then share your levels with you or other dogs /people in those moments.


Some people can only see out of one eye,some out of two ,others out of their third eyes.

Some only out of their brown eye and their words follow suit.

Then there is a mixture of all the above with all the false and true claims in between usually to make money from or to the reverse extreme ;to protect a false sense of security in only the physical realm.
At the end of the day everything outside and inside of us is energy vibrating at different rates. light speed is NOT constant depending on where you stand and there are senses available to us that allow us to feel ,see and hear such energies if you wish to exersise towards them.

Hmm somebody has been reading the Celestine Prophecy I see. To be honest I hate New Age thinking with a passion. I don't know why the Catholic Church came into this, the contents of the bible is affirmed by the Jewish Torah and even the Quran in it's most signficant parts, the Catholic Church certainly don't have a monopoly on it.

The idea of animals having a higher vibrationary love experience as you put it is one of the reasons I hate this New Age stuff so much as it de-emphisises the significance of mankind within creation and reduces us to the status of highly evolved animal.

Ultimately any belief system is a matter of faith and I cannot convince why my own viewpoint is better than yours but this New Age white shaminism explains absolutely nothing and just introduces loads of pseudobabble and hocus terms to appease the 20 th century mindset and obsession with psychology and hippie spirituality.

It is entirely a temporal belief system, mostly concocted by stealing ideas from native Ameircan indians and other tribal societies whilst completely ignoring or misinterperating other aspects of tribal belief so that most tribal societes consider this new age thinking to be a blasphamous perversion of their own belief systems.

I think more than any other belief systems new age is very much a product of its times, beginning with the drug culture of the sixties and guys like Timothy Leary and now advocated with an attempt at scientific credibility under the likes of Deepak Chopra. I actually believe this is one kind of religion that will die out in our own lifetimes.

Good debate,there is some truth in some of the things you say. cc to you too.

Thanks, cc returned

[Kev]

Wow Andre how did you manage to get 955 sadclicks and only 11 coolclicks?

[Sharla]

Yep CC back Andre and CC Bilbo for being open to the debate.

Opps I just remembered that 21 CCs turn to SCc thing you have going on Andre - thanks anyway

[Andre]

I have to say that the New Age thing you hate so much Bilbo, I wont endulge with them for other reasons.
It will eventually pass ,all things do.
I study and practice a very ancient path nothing new about it at all.
There are truths and half truths or as some say serpentine truths.
But if you want (the truth) you have to first (care to really know )then ask for it to show up and it will in whatever form you can handle at whatever stage your at. This I cant prove 'for you',only you can ask from the heart. If you have the guts to do so,it will turn up in some form and you will begin your own about face and return from self emposed seperation.
In regards New Age , I see them mostly as people worshiping the tools of the universe or God instead of looking to where it and they all stem from.These new age people are the same as the ones who are scared of the light of love, scared of their own shadows, scared of where they have originated from.

Religion is man made and its just another place for many others to hide away in too.



I find it funny that people think it is a weakness to hold a belife other than the one they belive.

It is what causes war it is what continues their own personal seperation from other humans and other life forms.
It is the 'them and us 'syndrome that this 3rd dimension of life keeps bringing to the boil rising it to the top and frying it in the light of Gods sun.
This world is going so fast now regarding progression due to knowledge being released,science catching up via new measureing implements etc that if you feel threatened from any of it now wait until all the lines meet in agreement.

On another note:
My daughter at the age of twelve years looked behind a middle aged female friend of ours and said I can see a tall man behind you.
She asked if he had any messages for her.
My daughter said HE is your relative and he is here to protect your new born from others in this old area of Sydney.
The LAdy was smart she asked my daughter for proof.
My daughter turned to her and said "BIg shoulders" and the lady cried and said "ITs my grandfather" I can only remember one thing and that was him carrying me around everywhere laying down across his shoulders with my head one end and my feet the other.
That was a business woman and that all happened out of the blue.

[Scrap]

Great read Andre, What gives us higher intelligence is our Thumb cc

[Scrap]

And Sharla and Bilbo cc

[Punisher136]

The exsistance of atleast one other "intelligent" species of life greatly dimenishes the importance of human exsistance from a universal perspective. I think its statitically (i don't put a lot of stock in numbers because as with religion and words, these too were made to help man understand his world and there's some numbers that have to exist that technically, due to our system, can't be accurately represented) impossible that we are the only species of "intelligent" life in the universe when you bring into perspect the scale of the whole thing. A lot of scientists are too focused on numbers and a lot of religious people are too focused on a belief system handed down to them by their ancestors. The answer is somewhere in the middle and its very VERY confusing.

If there was this amazing process where "god" created the first humans than wouldn't it be common place that everyone agreed on the exact same thing? I mean they'd have visual proof that a lot of us today do not. When was the first bible written? Egyptians had the ability to write on things well into the bc years yet they believed that there were many gods. How can you say that a poly/monotheist belief system is wrong when you yourself have never seen the very thing you believe in?

I don't think religion or any other inanimate object is to blame for the actions of people. People have free will they can choose whether to hate or not. It is true that we could all look the same (same skin, eye, and hair color as well as the same height and weight for just about everyone) and we would still find a way to hate each other over "differences". Humans are pattern seeking animals and are developed to think in terms of ratio instead of pure value (the difference between 1 and 4 is the same as the difference between 101 and 104 however the human mind will see 4 as MUCH larger than one as opposed to it seeing 101 and 104 as roughly the same size because the former is 4 times the value). So if you became suspicious of a person, despite their alikeness to you, you would "pick-up" (make up is probably more accurate) a pattern of behavior from them that you dislike and find "harmful" to the general population.

I have to say that the New Age thing you hate so much Bilbo, I wont endulge with them for other reasons.
It will eventually pass ,all things do.
I study and practice a very ancient path nothing new about it at all.
There are truths and half truths or as some say serpentine truths.
But if you want (the truth) you have to first (care to really know )then ask for it to show up and it will in whatever form you can handle at whatever stage your at. This I cant prove 'for you',only you can ask from the heart. If you have the guts to do so,it will turn up in some form and you will begin your own about face and return from self emposed seperation.
In regards New Age , I see them mostly as people worshiping the tools of the universe or God instead of looking to where it and they all stem from.These new age people are the same as the ones who are scared of the light of love, scared of their own shadows, scared of where they have originated from.

Religion is man made and its just another place for many others to hide away in too.



I find it funny that people think it is a weakness to hold a belife other than the one they belive.

It is what causes war it is what continues their own personal seperation from other humans and other life forms.
It is the 'them and us 'syndrome that this 3rd dimension of life keeps bringing to the boil rising it to the top and frying it in the light of Gods sun.
This world is going so fast now regarding progression due to knowledge being released,science catching up via new measureing implements etc that if you feel threatened from any of it now wait until all the lines meet in agreement.

On another note:
My daughter at the age of twelve years looked behind a middle aged female friend of ours and said I can see a tall man behind you.
She asked if he had any messages for her.
My daughter said HE is your relative and he is here to protect your new born from others in this old area of Sydney.
The LAdy was smart she asked my daughter for proof.
My daughter turned to her and said "BIg shoulders" and the lady cried and said "ITs my grandfather" I can only remember one thing and that was him carrying me around everywhere laying down across his shoulders with my head one end and my feet the other.
That was a business woman and that all happened out of the blue.

I think this plain we live in is actually 4 dimensional. My very limited and unproven idea for this comes from the fact that scientists have made renderings of 4d, 5d, and beyond objects that are visible within a 3d plane. If you made a model out of them, you would see that the "hypercube" and whatever else they call the above dimensions are actually just wierdly shaped 3d objects. It's my belief that only the first three dimensions are physical and the next two (or more) are something else (spiritual, conscious, etc.).

In order to truely see a 2dimensional object would you not have to be atleast one dimension above that? If you look down at a square (a 2d square so that is you would look solely at the side you would see nothing because width is non existant in this case) you're view point is a dimension thats not compatible with a 2d object. you can move left and right and up and down (within the square) but looking up or down (past the square boundaries) is a 3rd dimensional viewpoint. So by the same token if we can visually isolate 3d objects, which are all around us, wouldn't it be because he have yet another dimension we are looking from?

Thats probably not the best example but do you atleast see what i'm trying to say?

[Snakey]

All you guys who say there arent any aliens then you guys just hatin on ET ok. Now i think what we need now is a topic entitled "Ghosts vs UFOs- The see through force meets the flying object, who wins"