PACQUIAO CAN BE ANOTHER SUGAR RAY ROBINSON

[pacfan]

Regardless of whether or not PAC is better than Robbinson. I think it is about time we started opening our minds to the possibility that there may be better fighters our there than Robbinson. He shouls not be a lock for the greatest of all time. He should constantly be reevaluated and compared to todays and future greats.

I don't think a fighter needs to have 100+ fights to be considered better. In our time that just doesn't happen anymore, with only very few exceptions. You have to have good quality opposition but not only that, you also have to be recognizable. All time greatness has always been somewhat of a popularity contest. I suspect that there have been other ATGs, maybe better than Robbinson or Ali, that just were not well known. To give you an example, how many people outside the hard core fans know Finito Lopez.

There have been fighters who came close or couls still do it. Imagine if DLH had won all his fights, with his list of opponents it would've been hard to deny his greatness. But in the end he lossed many of his big fights because he was just not that great. But the point is if he had won all of his fights, he should have been considered top 3 all time and he wouldn't have needed 100+ fights to do it.

If Mayweather would step up his opposition he might make it to that top 10 ATG list. But if he does not he will fall short and all his inmens skills just won't matter because he didn't make the big fights or become popular enough.

Very well said. At last I've found a poster who talks sense, where are the others? Very true about the number of fights. It reminds me of Carlos Zarate in the 80's, who once had something like 50 fights, 50 wins and 50 KO's!!! Everyone then was saying how good a fighter he was, and thought he was invincible. But when he fought real competition, he started to lose and all his former opponents became instant 'cab drivers.' and his legend status immediately started to fade. I wonder what would've happen if he stopped at his 50th or so fight, just before he started to lose. He'd probably be next to Robinson and Ali!

And you got it right about Mayweather too. This is what I've always wanted to tell his fans: Instead of wasting their time defending everything he does and calling everyone criticizing him 'haters,' they should storm the net instead with requests asking him to fight the best out there so he can be one of the all time greats. You know, Mayweather fans, boxing people of the future are never kind. Remember RJJ. During his time, he was treated just like Mayweather now, praised as being the best, the most skilled. But look what's happening now, his name's starting to fade little by little, and that might happen to Mayweather cuz the same issue hounds him as it hounded RJJ. So why not start sending mass request asking him to fight the top fighters out there. C'mon guys, start storming all the sites, forums with your requests, he might just listen to you guys. You know what, I'm pretty sure he can beat 'em all! Otherwise, he'll be just another Pryors, Whitakers who're always just in the shadows behind Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Hagler, precisely because of the issues about competition. And harping something like 'those guys were ducking him' won't help either, just as it didn't help Prior or Whitaker.

Almost forgot, CC for you, The rookie fan.

[headson]

Can he really equal Sugar Ray Robinson?

Here's the news:
http://philboxing.com/news/story-12502.html

you must be out your goddamn min son
pac good

but srr is great like tony the mutha fuggin tiger

[The Rookie Fan]

bruce and penalosa CC back, I appretiate it.

[slk123]

Laff at me 'til you drop if you wish or throw whatever you wish at me, or call me the nuttest of the nuts, but I think Pac would've beaten SRR if they fought today and had the same weight... Ok, let 'em out, folks... As a matter of fact, I think most top-class boxers of the last 30 or so years could have beaten any of the favorites of the old. It's just a common sense, all sports have progressed tremendously in the last 30 or so years, all the records of the old have been broken by leaps and bounds (I'm only talking here of the records of athletes whose perfomance can be objectively measured like those in most track-and-field events, all forms of racing, and many others) and I have absolutely no reason to believe boxing is the only exception. Even the records of Jesse Owens, who in his time left all his rivals gasping way far behind him, can be broken by high school athletes today. All right, have whatever laff you want, I don't give a shat (sorry I'm very bad at spelling them words), and how 'bout some soda cans and bottles? - I'll still be sitting here unperturbed underneath my nice pink umbrella.

Geeze, it's me and Bruce against the world, naw against the idiots, I mean, very nice idiots. Stand your groud pal, I'm pretty sure we're on the 'right' side.

You can't spell shit but you can spell unperturbed?

[pacfan]

Laff at me 'til you drop if you wish or throw whatever you wish at me, or call me the nuttest of the nuts, but I think Pac would've beaten SRR if they fought today and had the same weight... Ok, let 'em out, folks... As a matter of fact, I think most top-class boxers of the last 30 or so years could have beaten any of the favorites of the old. It's just a common sense, all sports have progressed tremendously in the last 30 or so years, all the records of the old have been broken by leaps and bounds (I'm only talking here of the records of athletes whose perfomance can be objectively measured like those in most track-and-field events, all forms of racing, and many others) and I have absolutely no reason to believe boxing is the only exception. Even the records of Jesse Owens, who in his time left all his rivals gasping way far behind him, can be broken by high school athletes today. All right, have whatever laff you want, I don't give a shat (sorry I'm very bad at spelling them words), and how 'bout some soda cans and bottles? - I'll still be sitting here unperturbed underneath my nice pink umbrella.

Geeze, it's me and Bruce against the world, naw against the idiots, I mean, very nice idiots. Stand your groud pal, I'm pretty sure we're on the 'right' side.

You can't spell S*** but you can spell unperturbed?

You mean you know how to spell it, geeze thanks cuz I'm bad at them words that crawls on four legs. So go ahead, spell it out for me. While your at it, you might also want to include the word fooking, or is it fwoking, can you spell that out of us ignorant punch-drunk boxing fans out here? If you do, I'll give you CC for 5 straight days! that's if you can log in here again after that.


(All right folks, I slip in these stupid jokes to cool things down here especially when the topic's hot. There's no reason why we fans, me and you, go on cuzzing, naw murdering, one another with our keyboards when those boxing idols of ours probably don't give a damn about us. Sorry about gayish jokes - the Philippines is one of the most, it could be the most, gay open society and these kind of jokes abound here. I'm just being influenced by them. No, I am not a gay, period. Thank you for your cooperation. )

[brucelee]

Laff at me 'til you drop if you wish or throw whatever you wish at me, or call me the nuttest of the nuts, but I think Pac would've beaten SRR if they fought today and had the same weight... Ok, let 'em out, folks... As a matter of fact, I think most top-class boxers of the last 30 or so years could have beaten any of the favorites of the old. It's just a common sense, all sports have progressed tremendously in the last 30 or so years, all the records of the old have been broken by leaps and bounds (I'm only talking here of the records of athletes whose perfomance can be objectively measured like those in most track-and-field events, all forms of racing, and many others) and I have absolutely no reason to believe boxing is the only exception. Even the records of Jesse Owens, who in his time left all his rivals gasping way far behind him, can be broken by high school athletes today. All right, have whatever laff you want, I don't give a shat (sorry I'm very bad at spelling them words), and how 'bout some soda cans and bottles? - I'll still be sitting here unperturbed underneath my nice pink umbrella.

Geeze, it's me and Bruce against the world, naw against the idiots, I mean, very nice idiots. Stand your groud pal, I'm pretty sure we're on the 'right' side.

You can't spell S*** but you can spell unperturbed?

You mean you know how to spell it, geeze thanks cuz I'm bad at them words that crawls on four legs. So go ahead, spell it out for me. While your at it, you might also want to include the word fooking, or is it fwoking, can you spell that out of us ignorant punch-drunk boxing fans out here? If you do, I'll give you CC for 5 straight days! that's if you can log in here again after that.


(All right folks, I slip in these stupid jokes to cool things down here especially when the topic's hot. There's no reason why we fans, me and you, go on cuzzing, naw murdering, one another with our keyboards when those boxing idols of ours probably don't give a damn about us. Sorry about gayish jokes - the Philippines is one of the most, it could be the most, gay open society and these kind of jokes abound here. I'm just being influenced by them. No, I am not a gay, period. Thank you for your cooperation. )

Penalosafan, your pink umbrella suggests otherwise.hehehe.

[pacfan]

Laff at me 'til you drop if you wish or throw whatever you wish at me, or call me the nuttest of the nuts, but I think Pac would've beaten SRR if they fought today and had the same weight... Ok, let 'em out, folks... As a matter of fact, I think most top-class boxers of the last 30 or so years could have beaten any of the favorites of the old. It's just a common sense, all sports have progressed tremendously in the last 30 or so years, all the records of the old have been broken by leaps and bounds (I'm only talking here of the records of athletes whose perfomance can be objectively measured like those in most track-and-field events, all forms of racing, and many others) and I have absolutely no reason to believe boxing is the only exception. Even the records of Jesse Owens, who in his time left all his rivals gasping way far behind him, can be broken by high school athletes today. All right, have whatever laff you want, I don't give a shat (sorry I'm very bad at spelling them words), and how 'bout some soda cans and bottles? - I'll still be sitting here unperturbed underneath my nice pink umbrella.

Geeze, it's me and Bruce against the world, naw against the idiots, I mean, very nice idiots. Stand your groud pal, I'm pretty sure we're on the 'right' side.

You can't spell S*** but you can spell unperturbed?

You mean you know how to spell it, geeze thanks cuz I'm bad at them words that crawls on four legs. So go ahead, spell it out for me. While your at it, you might also want to include the word fooking, or is it fwoking, can you spell that out of us ignorant punch-drunk boxing fans out here? If you do, I'll give you CC for 5 straight days! that's if you can log in here again after that.


(All right folks, I slip in these stupid jokes to cool things down here especially when the topic's hot. There's no reason why we fans, me and you, go on cuzzing, naw murdering, one another with our keyboards when those boxing idols of ours probably don't give a damn about us. Sorry about gayish jokes - the Philippines is one of the most, it could be the most, gay open society and these kind of jokes abound here. I'm just being influenced by them. No, I am not a gay, period. Thank you for your cooperation. )

Penalosafan, your pink umbrella suggests otherwise.hehehe.

I think you and me need to take a walk, pal.

penalosafan at daytime at night at school

[slk123]

Laff at me 'til you drop if you wish or throw whatever you wish at me, or call me the nuttest of the nuts, but I think Pac would've beaten SRR if they fought today and had the same weight... Ok, let 'em out, folks... As a matter of fact, I think most top-class boxers of the last 30 or so years could have beaten any of the favorites of the old. It's just a common sense, all sports have progressed tremendously in the last 30 or so years, all the records of the old have been broken by leaps and bounds (I'm only talking here of the records of athletes whose perfomance can be objectively measured like those in most track-and-field events, all forms of racing, and many others) and I have absolutely no reason to believe boxing is the only exception. Even the records of Jesse Owens, who in his time left all his rivals gasping way far behind him, can be broken by high school athletes today. All right, have whatever laff you want, I don't give a shat (sorry I'm very bad at spelling them words), and how 'bout some soda cans and bottles? - I'll still be sitting here unperturbed underneath my nice pink umbrella.

Geeze, it's me and Bruce against the world, naw against the idiots, I mean, very nice idiots. Stand your groud pal, I'm pretty sure we're on the 'right' side.

You can't spell S*** but you can spell unperturbed?

You mean you know how to spell it, geeze thanks cuz I'm bad at them words that crawls on four legs. So go ahead, spell it out for me. While your at it, you might also want to include the word fooking, or is it fwoking, can you spell that out of us ignorant punch-drunk boxing fans out here? If you do, I'll give you CC for 5 straight days! that's if you can log in here again after that.


(All right folks, I slip in these stupid jokes to cool things down here especially when the topic's hot. There's no reason why we fans, me and you, go on cuzzing, naw murdering, one another with our keyboards when those boxing idols of ours probably don't give a damn about us. Sorry about gayish jokes - the Philippines is one of the most, it could be the most, gay open society and these kind of jokes abound here. I'm just being influenced by them. No, I am not a gay, period. Thank you for your cooperation. )

Apparently, if spelled correctly, they all come out the same. **** **** *******

[:::PSL:::]

Laff at me 'til you drop if you wish or throw whatever you wish at me, or call me the nuttest of the nuts, but I think Pac would've beaten SRR if they fought today and had the same weight... Ok, let 'em out, folks... As a matter of fact, I think most top-class boxers of the last 30 or so years could have beaten any of the favorites of the old. It's just a common sense, all sports have progressed tremendously in the last 30 or so years, all the records of the old have been broken by leaps and bounds (I'm only talking here of the records of athletes whose perfomance can be objectively measured like those in most track-and-field events, all forms of racing, and many others) and I have absolutely no reason to believe boxing is the only exception. Even the records of Jesse Owens, who in his time left all his rivals gasping way far behind him, can be broken by high school athletes today. All right, have whatever laff you want, I don't give a shat (sorry I'm very bad at spelling them words), and how 'bout some soda cans and bottles? - I'll still be sitting here unperturbed underneath my nice pink umbrella.

Geeze, it's me and Bruce against the world, naw against the idiots, I mean, very nice idiots. Stand your groud pal, I'm pretty sure we're on the 'right' side.

You can't spell S*** but you can spell unperturbed?

You mean you know how to spell it, geeze thanks cuz I'm bad at them words that crawls on four legs. So go ahead, spell it out for me. While your at it, you might also want to include the word fooking, or is it fwoking, can you spell that out of us ignorant punch-drunk boxing fans out here? If you do, I'll give you CC for 5 straight days! that's if you can log in here again after that.


(All right folks, I slip in these stupid jokes to cool things down here especially when the topic's hot. There's no reason why we fans, me and you, go on cuzzing, naw murdering, one another with our keyboards when those boxing idols of ours probably don't give a damn about us. Sorry about gayish jokes - the Philippines is one of the most, it could be the most, gay open society and these kind of jokes abound here. I'm just being influenced by them. No, I am not a gay, period. Thank you for your cooperation. )

Apparently, if spelled correctly, they all come out the same. **** **** *******

****! **********! ****! *****! *******! y'all!

[pacfan]

Laff at me 'til you drop if you wish or throw whatever you wish at me, or call me the nuttest of the nuts, but I think Pac would've beaten SRR if they fought today and had the same weight... Ok, let 'em out, folks... As a matter of fact, I think most top-class boxers of the last 30 or so years could have beaten any of the favorites of the old. It's just a common sense, all sports have progressed tremendously in the last 30 or so years, all the records of the old have been broken by leaps and bounds (I'm only talking here of the records of athletes whose perfomance can be objectively measured like those in most track-and-field events, all forms of racing, and many others) and I have absolutely no reason to believe boxing is the only exception. Even the records of Jesse Owens, who in his time left all his rivals gasping way far behind him, can be broken by high school athletes today. All right, have whatever laff you want, I don't give a shat (sorry I'm very bad at spelling them words), and how 'bout some soda cans and bottles? - I'll still be sitting here unperturbed underneath my nice pink umbrella.

Geeze, it's me and Bruce against the world, naw against the idiots, I mean, very nice idiots. Stand your groud pal, I'm pretty sure we're on the 'right' side.

You can't spell S*** but you can spell unperturbed?

You mean you know how to spell it, geeze thanks cuz I'm bad at them words that crawls on four legs. So go ahead, spell it out for me. While your at it, you might also want to include the word fooking, or is it fwoking, can you spell that out of us ignorant punch-drunk boxing fans out here? If you do, I'll give you CC for 5 straight days! that's if you can log in here again after that.


(All right folks, I slip in these stupid jokes to cool things down here especially when the topic's hot. There's no reason why we fans, me and you, go on cuzzing, naw murdering, one another with our keyboards when those boxing idols of ours probably don't give a damn about us. Sorry about gayish jokes - the Philippines is one of the most, it could be the most, gay open society and these kind of jokes abound here. I'm just being influenced by them. No, I am not a gay, period. Thank you for your cooperation. )

Apparently, if spelled correctly, they all come out the same. **** **** *******

****! **********! ****! *****! *******! y'all!

Hey guys, we're talking here about Pac and Robinson, not four-legged words! Who started this thing anyway!? Well since we're at it let me try to finish this spelling bee. Since we're here talking 'bout four-lettered words, slk123's fourth word must be ****ing, right? pacstraight's second word must be ****iously or something like that, right again? But what's the fourth word *****!? hmm, it must be something like mean - meant but the one with only four letters at the base and it's limited to an f-word at that. That's tough. I've got no idea, I give up. Any idea, guyz?

You kids are driving me nuts.

[:::PSL:::]

Laff at me 'til you drop if you wish or throw whatever you wish at me, or call me the nuttest of the nuts, but I think Pac would've beaten SRR if they fought today and had the same weight... Ok, let 'em out, folks... As a matter of fact, I think most top-class boxers of the last 30 or so years could have beaten any of the favorites of the old. It's just a common sense, all sports have progressed tremendously in the last 30 or so years, all the records of the old have been broken by leaps and bounds (I'm only talking here of the records of athletes whose perfomance can be objectively measured like those in most track-and-field events, all forms of racing, and many others) and I have absolutely no reason to believe boxing is the only exception. Even the records of Jesse Owens, who in his time left all his rivals gasping way far behind him, can be broken by high school athletes today. All right, have whatever laff you want, I don't give a shat (sorry I'm very bad at spelling them words), and how 'bout some soda cans and bottles? - I'll still be sitting here unperturbed underneath my nice pink umbrella.

Geeze, it's me and Bruce against the world, naw against the idiots, I mean, very nice idiots. Stand your groud pal, I'm pretty sure we're on the 'right' side.

You can't spell S*** but you can spell unperturbed?

You mean you know how to spell it, geeze thanks cuz I'm bad at them words that crawls on four legs. So go ahead, spell it out for me. While your at it, you might also want to include the word fooking, or is it fwoking, can you spell that out of us ignorant punch-drunk boxing fans out here? If you do, I'll give you CC for 5 straight days! that's if you can log in here again after that.


(All right folks, I slip in these stupid jokes to cool things down here especially when the topic's hot. There's no reason why we fans, me and you, go on cuzzing, naw murdering, one another with our keyboards when those boxing idols of ours probably don't give a damn about us. Sorry about gayish jokes - the Philippines is one of the most, it could be the most, gay open society and these kind of jokes abound here. I'm just being influenced by them. No, I am not a gay, period. Thank you for your cooperation. )

Apparently, if spelled correctly, they all come out the same. **** **** *******

****! **********! ****! *****! *******! y'all!

Hey guys, we're talking here about Pac and Robinson, not four-legged words! Who started this thing anyway!? Well since we're at it let me try to finish this spelling bee. Since we're here talking 'bout four-lettered words, slk123's fourth word must be ****ing, right? pacstraight's second word must be ****iously or something like that, right again? But what's the fourth word *****!? hmm, it must be something like mean - meant but the one with only four letters at the base and it's limited to an f-word at that. That's tough. I've got no idea, I give up. Any idea, guyz?

You kids are driving me nuts.

Those vulgar words are in tagalog bro They're even harder to crack.

[pacfan]

Laff at me 'til you drop if you wish or throw whatever you wish at me, or call me the nuttest of the nuts, but I think Pac would've beaten SRR if they fought today and had the same weight... Ok, let 'em out, folks... As a matter of fact, I think most top-class boxers of the last 30 or so years could have beaten any of the favorites of the old. It's just a common sense, all sports have progressed tremendously in the last 30 or so years, all the records of the old have been broken by leaps and bounds (I'm only talking here of the records of athletes whose perfomance can be objectively measured like those in most track-and-field events, all forms of racing, and many others) and I have absolutely no reason to believe boxing is the only exception. Even the records of Jesse Owens, who in his time left all his rivals gasping way far behind him, can be broken by high school athletes today. All right, have whatever laff you want, I don't give a shat (sorry I'm very bad at spelling them words), and how 'bout some soda cans and bottles? - I'll still be sitting here unperturbed underneath my nice pink umbrella.

Geeze, it's me and Bruce against the world, naw against the idiots, I mean, very nice idiots. Stand your groud pal, I'm pretty sure we're on the 'right' side.

You can't spell S*** but you can spell unperturbed?

You mean you know how to spell it, geeze thanks cuz I'm bad at them words that crawls on four legs. So go ahead, spell it out for me. While your at it, you might also want to include the word fooking, or is it fwoking, can you spell that out of us ignorant punch-drunk boxing fans out here? If you do, I'll give you CC for 5 straight days! that's if you can log in here again after that.


(All right folks, I slip in these stupid jokes to cool things down here especially when the topic's hot. There's no reason why we fans, me and you, go on cuzzing, naw murdering, one another with our keyboards when those boxing idols of ours probably don't give a damn about us. Sorry about gayish jokes - the Philippines is one of the most, it could be the most, gay open society and these kind of jokes abound here. I'm just being influenced by them. No, I am not a gay, period. Thank you for your cooperation. )

Apparently, if spelled correctly, they all come out the same. **** **** *******

****! **********! ****! *****! *******! y'all!

Hey guys, we're talking here about Pac and Robinson, not four-legged words! Who started this thing anyway!? Well since we're at it let me try to finish this spelling bee. Since we're here talking 'bout four-lettered words, slk123's fourth word must be ****ing, right? pacstraight's second word must be ****iously or something like that, right again? But what's the fourth word *****!? hmm, it must be something like mean - meant but the one with only four letters at the base and it's limited to an f-word at that. That's tough. I've got no idea, I give up. Any idea, guyz?

You kids are driving me nuts.

Those vulgar words are in tagalog bro They're even harder to crack.

Hahahahaha......... You should've said that from the beginning, wasted my whole afternoon trying to figure out what the sonovagun word might be.

Enough of this kiddie stuff, cuz kids here at home have been snooping around my stuff and saying: uncle pacfan, did you write that, no right? I said, of course not, you know pretty well your uncle pacfan don't do such silly things. So don't lure me into this stuff anymore, kiddos.

[Gandalf]

What a load of bollocks

Unbelievable.

Pac is a quality fighter, but he has his limits. He lost early in his career to nondescript opposition. SRR went unbeaten for an eternity and on the way beat quality fighters.

Pac has improved and beaten quality fighters too. But SRR's legacy far outweighs that of Pac. Its a silly argument.

[El Gamo]

What a load of bollocks

Unbelievable.

Pac is a quality fighter, but he has his limits. He lost early in his career to nondescript opposition. SRR went unbeaten for an eternity and on the way beat quality fighters.

Pac has improved and beaten quality fighters too. But SRR's legacy far outweighs that of Pac. Its a silly argument.

Edited. We all say things when we're angry

[pacfan]

I did some googling and as expected, and not even surprisingly, I came up with a suberb article on this point which should settle this issue. 'THE SCHOLAR CONSIDERS: An Interview With Boxing Historian Herbert G. Goldman.

(mods: are we allowed to post links to www.cyberboxingzone.com?)

This is an interview with probably the most notable Boxing historian who has a very extensive resume when it comes to boxing. He is Herbert G. Goldman, who is Chair of the Nominations Committee of the Boxing Hall of Fame, managing editor of the Ring Magazine during the 70's and the 80's, editor of three editions of Ring Record Book and Encyclopedia, past editor-in-chief of Boxing Digest (formerly Boxing Illustrated... [now who can argue with him, right? definitely not me]

This article starts with a quote: 'In which the expert insists that the average modern boxers whips the tar out of average old-timer, and provides reasoned arguments on other interesting questions.

But what the heck, this is definitely by far the longest interview I came across on the net so far and I had to skim through it a bit to find a place where he compares the old and the modern boxers and gives some very plausible reasons why the modern ones a better, actually almostly exactly what I've said earlier but in a more detailed manner like better training etc., etc. But the highlight of it all in relation to this thread is the statement by Mr. Goldman: And Sugar Ray Robinson, again an exceptional fighter, but I don't believe he would have a piece of cake with some of these modern fighters[!]

So there, I think that should clear the matter. And I'm a real good debator and never lost a debate and I believe I can beat some boxing writers too with my arguments cuz this ol' fool who call himself pacfan uses head not heart when he (that me of course) analyse boxers or fights.


So that should clear this issue, so I thought...

But...

What a load of bollocks

Unbelievable.

Pac is a quality fighter, but he has his limits. He lost early in his career to nondescript opposition. SRR went unbeaten for an eternity and on the way beat quality fighters.

Pac has improved and beaten quality fighters too. But SRR's legacy far outweighs that of Pac. Its a silly argument.

Totally agree. Like I said,there are opinions and then there is bullshit. This is bullshit.

But... If my good friend El Gamo sez otherwise, I'll go with him, cuz he's the best out here and there is no way I can argue with him. He's just a step ahead of me and Icecoldboxing.

All right, I lose