Quote Originally Posted by brucelee
So you're saying that these fighters (Paul Williams,Miguel Cotto,Shane Mosley,Antonio Margarito,Kermit Cintron,Ricky Hatton,Zab Judah,Andre Berto,Joshua Clottey) are quality fighters. I do not disagree about it ( in their own way, they are good). Now let me ask you, how many of these fighters you have mentioned will be remembered by history like the way boxing history remembers Robinson, Duran, Basilio and Leonard?

Who knows ?? they haven't finished there career yet so its unfair but all i know is that they are all good fighters and this Welterweight era has more good fighters in it than Robinson's Welterweight era and Leonard's Welterweight era no question.

You've lost the debate ICB. These fighters you have mentioned will never be remembered better than Robinson and Duran. You may ask any boxing analyst. You may even ask yourself.

Ducked Charles Burley? It was the mafia who decided who will fight whom. Charles happened to be in the wrong time when discrimination was so high in boxing that the Mafia can not tolerate anymore any black fighter excelling in boxing aside from Robinson. Robinson can not do anything about Charles.

Its actually noted he ducked Burley because Bruely sparked Robinson twice in sparring when Burley was gym sweeper or something i think he knew something about Burley that Burley had his number but not only Robinson ducked Burley alot of fighters did.

Actually noted that he ducked Burley? That's more of a rumor/hearsay than a fact.

Ok so he had one good victory over Ike Williams but Kirkland Laing beat Duran once does that make him great fighter ?? Terry Marsh beat Robinson, Glen Johnson beat Roy Jones so many great fighters lose to fighters they shouldn't Bruce that doesn't make fighters like Laing, Johnson, Marsh, Costner great all you can mention is one victory he and there you haven't proven anything and you mentioned them names to prove greatness of Robinson ?? all you did is make it easy for me Bruce.

And I also said all the other top contenders in the division. Have you forgotten that? You have asked me to identify at least one great fighter these fighters I mentioned have fought. I gave you names. Now all you say is "they all have padded records". Have you really seen their fights for you to conclude that they really have padded records?

I believe it's Mayweather who has padded records. Quoted from wikipedia "From 1996 to early 1998, Mayweather fought against relatively easy opponents and won most of the fights by knockout or TKO".

By the way, you haven't answered me who among the fighters you mentioned have fought Mayweather to make the welterweight era better than before. You were questioning Robinson's quality of opponents so let me throw back the question to you. Who has Mayweather beaten in the welterweight? Did you watch the video I posted regarding the Mayweather vs Judah fight?

Mayweather has 38 fights (some padded) with 24 KOs. Mayweather only fought 3 (?) fighters in the welterweight. 2 of them questionable and selected for an easy win.

Robinson had a total of 202 fights (most of the fights involve all-out battle)
Wins 175
Wins by KO 108
Losses 19
Draws 6
No contests 2
And still Mayweather is greater than Robinson?



You've lost the debate ICB. These fighters you have mentioned will never be remembered better than Robinson and Duran. You may ask any boxing analyst. You may even ask yourself.

How have i lost ?? they may or may not be remembered in the same light as Duran or Robinson but what has that got to do with anything ?? the debate is about Welterweight era's and this Welterweight era has more quality fighters than Duran's Welterweight era and Robinson's Welterweight era and i have proved it.


Actually noted that he ducked Burley? That's more of a rumor/hearsay than a fact.

Come off it Burley sparked out Robinson twice in sparring Robinson avoided Burley like the plague he wanted nothing to do with Burley at all.


And I also said all the other top contenders in the division. Have you forgotten that? You have asked me to identify at least one great fighter these fighters I mentioned have fought. I gave you names. Now all you say is "they all have padded records". Have you really seen their fights for you to conclude that they really have padded records?

They wern't great fighters though and i proved that when i answered your questions let me copy and paste it.


Brimm managed a draw against Robinson, that’s why I mentioned him.

And ?? all that does is make Robinson look bad for drawing with 26-17 fighter.

Charley Fusari 65 wins 38 KO 12 losses thats an ok record but who did Fusari beat ?? if you actually look he lost all his big fights and even lost to some average opposition aswell.

Charles KOed Rocky Castellani in 10.


And who was Rocky Castellani ?? 65 wins 16 KO 14 losses he lost all the big fights he never had one victory that really stands out so out of all that you can only mention one win against Castellani who is really an unknown your just proving my point Bruce.

George Costner 73 wins, 44 KO, 10 losses, not a bad record but it was a padded record and yet again just like Charley Fusrari he lost all his big fights except he beat Kid Gavilan but Gavilan was totally robbed so if you want to count that as a good victory go ahead.

Lost all his big fights? Won over Ike Williams.

Now, Costner,Brimm, etc. is not the point here. I’ve mentioned Costner, Henry Brimm, Kid Gavilan and Tommy Bell to prove the greatness of Sugar Ray Robinson since you were questioning it.

You’re trying now to lure me in defending these guys. Nahhh, I won’t give you that benefit.


Ok so he had one good victory over Ike Williams but Kirkland Laing beat Duran once does that make him great fighter ?? Terry Marsh beat Robinson, Glen Johnson beat Roy Jones so many great fighters lose to fighters they shouldn't Bruce that doesn't make fighters like Laing, Johnson, Marsh, Costner great all you can mention is one victory he and there you haven't proven anything and you mentioned them names to prove greatness of Robinson ?? all you did is make it easy for me Bruce.

Thats what i posted and none of them fighters were great the only name that stood out was Kid Gavilan.



I believe it's Mayweather who has padded records. Quoted from wikipedia "From 1996 to early 1998, Mayweather fought against relatively easy opponents and won most of the fights by knockout or TKO".

The reason why this statement has nothing to do with the debate is because Mayweather was not even Welterweight then and plus Mayweather begun his pro debut in 1996 what do you expect him to face when he is a prospect ?? he wasn't even a champion then so i don't understand why you bring that up he didn't even win his first world title until 1998 off an excellent fighter Genaro Hernandez every fighter when they have just started there pro career starts off with easy opposition thats obvisious.


By the way, you haven't answered me who among the fighters you mentioned have fought Mayweather to make the welterweight era better than before. You were questioning Robinson's quality of opponents so let me throw back the question to you. Who has Mayweather beaten in the welterweight? Did you watch the video I posted regarding the Mayweather vs Judah fight?


Well considering Mayweather has only been a Welterweight for not even 2 years that is unfair and has only had 3 fights at Welterweight i think thats totally unfair arguement but he did beat.

Sharmba Mitchell
Zab Judah
Carlos Manuel Baldomir

Which is pretty solid list of opposition but again your turning this debate into strictly about Mayweather this debate is about Welterweight eras and i have proven that the only other era with as many quality fighters as this Welterweight era is 90s and even that is bit unfair considering i am only talking about 2007 and 90s has 10 years worth of fighters like i told you to do pick a year out of the 90s and we will compare it with 2007.


Mayweather has 38 fights (some padded) with 24 KOs. Mayweather only fought 3 (?) fighters in the welterweight. 2 of them questionable and selected for an easy win.

Robinson had a total of 202 fights (most of the fights involve all-out battle)
Wins 175
Wins by KO 108
Losses 19
Draws 6
No contests 2
And still Mayweather is greater than Robinson?

Mayweather fought legit Welterweight champion of the world Baldomir you can't expect him to do legendary things at Welterweight with only 3 fights at Welterweight but he has still fought quality opposition at Welterweight.

Whoever said Mayweather was as great as Robinson ?? your turning this debate into about Robinson vs Mayweather this debate is about Welterweight eras you keep going off topic Mayweather has only had 38 fights and has won 5 World titles in 5 different weight divisions thats something not even Robinson done and thats damn impressive in only 38 pro fights all i was saying is that Robinson's Welterweight era is not as strong as Welterweight era now and i have proven it isn't thats what im supposed to be debating about and so far i have proven it.