Quote Originally Posted by brucelee
Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft
Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote Originally Posted by El Gamo
I'm sorry to intervene but this debate has gone off topic!! and awful statements are being made:

Mayweather better than Duran P4P(tip look at who Duran fought in each weight class then compare it to Mayweather)?? Mayweather's resume being compared to SRR at welterweight(just because YOU don't know the names of the fighters at WW does not mean they dont "stand out" etc)

Those are just some points I've come across that must minus points etc. Those are absurd shocking statements. Whoever the judge is needs to call a halt to this fight,Bruce has won this.
Wooah hang on a minute I'm also a judge in this thing and folks I can say now I'm going all Dick Flaherty here but I saw ICE winning this.

We have to remember what the original question was here and that is 'Is the current welterweight era the best ever?'

To my mind Bruce as eloquent as some of his rebutalls were never actually addressed this core question, preferring instead to launch a personal attack on Floyd Mayweather.

Ics got dragged off course as well but he managed to bring it back to the central question that was ultimately the whole point of the debate.

The question was is this era the best ever and brucelee never even directly answered the question.

Ice did, attempting to show that Ray Robinsons welterweight era had less big stars than the present and Bruce never succesfully countered that imo. In fact he virtually conceded as much when he said that Robinson was so dominant he overshadowed everybody else.

Reading through bruce's posts again and time and again he went back to challenging Floyd's resume, which just wasn't the question.

Don't get me wrong, I thought Ice was sloppy at times and he'll need to tighten up his debating defense if he's to hold on to his title in future bouts but I think by making more of an attempt to answer the original question he did enough to take the bout and retain his belt.
Finally someone who understood the point thats exactly what i was trying to say El Gamo totally misunderstood what i was saying Bilbo.
Yup no worries buddy, I completely agree with Gamo that Duran is at least 15 places above Floyd in the all time p4p, he's possibly even top 5 ahead of Leonard and Hearns certainly some writers think so, it just wasn't relevant to the question at hand.

For me the single most significant slip up in the debate was bruce's admittance that Robinson completlely overshadowed everyone in his era, thus admitting that it wasn't as good and competitive as it is today.

He really could have scored points had he tried to argue that the 90's era was better, but he never did, he just got sidetracked trying to compare Floyd to Ray Robinson.

You cannot win a debate when you don't even answer the question that was the whole point of the debate, we're not politician's for heaven's sake :P
Bilbo,

Have you read my last post?I did address the topic directly. How could ICB won this fight when he was simply making some accusations about Robinson ducking Burley. HAve you noticed that at many points in the debate he had many claims that are not true?

Whoaa. Bilbo. Read the posts again. I'm willing to wait. Read my last post.
Sorry buddy I liked your logic and you did out debate Ice at times but I just didn't feel it was too relevent. You kept going on about individual fighters such as Ray Robinson, Basillio and Duran and comparing them to Floyd which I didn't see relevant to the conversation.

Robinson is best remembered as a middleweight. You kept talking about how history remembers him, well the vast majority of people remember Sugar Ray for winning the world MIDDLEWEIGHT title 5 times. True he was a great welter weight but that isn't what's remembered about him. Watch any documentary on Robinson and his welterweight career will be glossed over in 5/10 minutes flat and then the rest of the show will be his megafights with Jake Lamotta, Bassilio, Turpin, Fulmer, Olsen etc, his welterweight era isn't remembered by popular history much at all.

You then mentioned Basillio again a fighter whose historically significant fights happened at middleweight also. Finally Roberto Duran, regarded as the greatest LIGHTWEIGHT of all time and a fighter who passed through all the divisions from lightweight to supermiddle.

As this debate was specifically about comparing the welterweight divisions I felt you were too off topic to win the debate.

Sorry buddy but I got to call it how I see it.