marciano doesnt belongin the same breath as ali

[shza]

so Dundee says at the end of the day Ali's arms are bruised and sore, so Marciano comes over to Dundee and says, " He's a nice kid, but I would have murdered him when I was fighting. As my father told me "Marciano was tough son of a bitch!!

Finally someone with real life accounts...Most people today have no knowledge of the HISTORY of Marciano or Marchegiano for youse that didn't know....Unbelieveable power....

If by "real life accounts" you mean some self-interested thing that Rocky said to Angelo Dundee. . . . Who cares? The guy was a good brawler, and would probably do well in today's division, but it really is ridiculous to act like he's in the same league as Ali, who would have gotten out of the way of almost all of Rocky's slow reckless punches and battered Rocky's face for the bulk of the fight. I don't see it even being close--Rocky had no more than a puncher's chance (and didn't punch nearly as hard as Foreman, so....).

I always get the feeling that people would be way less fan-boy about Rocky if he hadn't been white.

[El Kabong]

Ali had good skill, a novel fighting style for a heavyweight BUT

1. He was obnoxious and has begot more obnoxious fighters look at James Toney
2. He was all about civil rights yet called people uncle toms at the drop of a hat
3. He was BORING AS ALL HELL!!!

Yall have fun blowing him out of proportion people consider him the greatest only because of 2 things.
1. He wouldn't shut up about it
2. His stance on Vietnam

Joe Louis is the real #1 greatest of all time, Marciano is #2

[Bomp]

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

You must note though thatAli got alot of altered judging in his fights... some fights there is no way he won(Ken Norton) and he won on name alone... Also against Henry Cooper he was knocked out, and they had to rip his glove so he would have more time to recuperate. Foreman states that he was drugged during their fight which no1 really knows but with all the other conspiracies behind Ali its plausible.

Foreman has retracted his statement about being drugged and has accepted he lost fair and square. He stated more than once that his biggest regret in his boxing career was making up excuses for his loss in the jungle, when he should have admitted there and then that Ali had out-witted him and taken away his heart by not folding under the barrage of punches. Big big respect for George, great man in and out of the ring, fucking legend.

As for Marciano, I've stated before that its difficult to compare fighters of different era's as boxing is an ever evolving sport, and different attributes are required to succed in different era's. Marciano certainly succeeded in his era, he had a solid chin, coupled with an unparalleled determination and heart, so does deserve to be mentioned with the other greats.

If you were to pluck a prime Marciano from his era, and stick him in the ring with Ali, I am confident that Ali would have administered a boxing lesson, with marciano's determination keeping him on his feet til the last bell.
Marciano's one punch power is overrated IMO also. While his punch on walcott was huge, it was a combination of the hayemaker thrown and the fact that Walcott was throwing his face right into it that made it so effective. Many of his other knockouts came from volume punching (with the odd illegal one here and there).
An excellent example is the Cockell fight, who was a limited fat middleweight. Rocky threw dozens and dozens of wild hooks putting everything into them, and nearly every one of them was landing cleanly through Don's non-existent defence, yet he stayed up for some time. I find it very hard to believe that he could have stayed on his feet for so long if he was fighting big hitters from later era's such as Foreman, frazier and Tyson. But this shouldn't take away from rocky's status as he did what he had to do, and came out on top every single time.

[cockey cockney]

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

You must note though thatAli got alot of altered judging in his fights... some fights there is no way he won(Ken Norton) and he won on name alone... Also against Henry Cooper he was knocked out, and they had to rip his glove so he would have more time to recuperate. Foreman states that he was drugged during their fight which no1 really knows but with all the other conspiracies behind Ali its plausible.

Foreman has retracted his statement about being drugged and has accepted he lost fair and square. He stated more than once that his biggest regret in his boxing career was making up excuses for his loss in the jungle, when he should have admitted there and then that Ali had out-witted him and taken away his heart by not folding under the barrage of punches. Big big respect for George, great man in and out of the ring, F****** legend.

As for Marciano, I've stated before that its difficult to compare fighters of different era's as boxing is an ever evolving sport, and different attributes are required to succed in different era's. Marciano certainly succeeded in his era, he had a solid chin, coupled with an unparalleled determination and heart, so does deserve to be mentioned with the other greats.

If you were to pluck a prime Marciano from his era, and stick him in the ring with Ali, I am confident that Ali would have administered a boxing lesson, with marciano's determination keeping him on his feet til the last bell.
Marciano's one punch power is overrated IMO also. While his punch on walcott was huge, it was a combination of the hayemaker thrown and the fact that Walcott was throwing his face right into it that made it so effective. Many of his other knockouts came from volume punching (with the odd illegal one here and there).
An excellent example is the Cockell fight, who was a limited fat middleweight. Rocky threw dozens and dozens of wild hooks putting everything into them, and nearly every one of them was landing cleanly through Don's non-existent defence, yet he stayed up for some time. I find it very hard to believe that he could have stayed on his feet for so long if he was fighting big hitters from later era's such as Foreman, frazier and Tyson. But this shouldn't take away from rocky's status as he did what he had to do, and came out on top every single time.

His chin was far better then sold. And he had amazing power, maybe only foreman topps him.

[undefeated]

so Dundee says at the end of the day Ali's arms are bruised and sore, so Marciano comes over to Dundee and says, " He's a nice kid, but I would have murdered him when I was fighting. As my father told me "Marciano was tough son of a bitch!!

Finally someone with real life accounts...Most people today have no knowledge of the HISTORY of Marciano or Marchegiano for youse that didn't know....Unbelieveable power....

If by "real life accounts" you mean some self-interested thing that Rocky said to Angelo Dundee. . . . Who cares? The guy was a good brawler, and would probably do well in today's division, but it really is ridiculous to act like he's in the same league as Ali, who would have gotten out of the way of almost all of Rocky's slow reckless punches and battered Rocky's face for the bulk of the fight. I don't see it even being close--Rocky had no more than a puncher's chance (and didn't punch nearly as hard as Foreman, so....).

I always get the feeling that people would be way less fan-boy about Rocky if he hadn't been white.

u can say that, i have a feeling ali would have a different fanbase if he were white
-u would probably say the same statemant above about ali

[Kev]

Whilst I agree that Ali was clearly a better boxer than Marciano and achieved more in the sport I cannot see how anybody who has actually studied Ali's career could possibly think that Ali would destroy Marciano.

Ali destroyed two great fighters Liston (twice) and Foreman. The former was seemingly in controversial circumstances, I'm not at all convinced on that 'phantom' punch and there was a real cock up between Wallcot and the time keeper in the second fight.

Anyway even crediting Ali fully for those victories, against everybody else he never looked the greatest.

Cooper came so close to beating him, Frazier did once, as did Norton and some say he got him the second time as well. He struggled to get rid of Patterson first time round even though Patterson had a serious back problem. He struggled to get past Chuvalo,Ron Lyle and Jimmy Young, all fighters (with the exception of Young) who were beaten soundly by Foreman and Liston.

On the basis of that how could anyone seriously suggest he would blow Marciano (one of the toughest, most tenacious champions ever) away?

Marciano would have one hell of a chance against Ali. Ali wasn't strong enough to get rid of fighters like Frazier, Chuvalo and Norton and he wouldnt have the strength to blow Marciano away either. 50/50 fight in my opinion.

However, Marciano would not have fared well against Lennox Lewis or Foreman, (maybe Liston) in my opinion because his size would be too much of a disadvantage.

[raleights]

I'll let ya know when Ali or Rocky belong in the same breath as Roy Jones

[zacbox]

Ali had good skill, a novel fighting style for a heavyweight BUT

1. He was obnoxious and has begot more obnoxious fighters look at James Toney
2. He was all about civil rights yet called people uncle toms at the drop of a hat
3. He was BORING AS ALL HELL!!!

Yall have fun blowing him out of proportion people consider him the greatest only because of 2 things.
1. He wouldn't shut up about it
2. His stance on Vietnam

Joe Louis is the real #1 greatest of all time, Marciano is #2

What about his boxing skills and performances?? You criticise the man but I think he should be measured on his boxing.

He shaped boxing as we know it, through not only hype but backing it up in the ring.

Marciano was tough had a lot of heart, but he is definitely not number 2 g.o.a.t. He didn't have a long enough reign as champ (a similar length of time to Tyson) and his opponents, although good were not at their peak, Moore, Louis etc. He should be respected for being unbeaten but this shouldn't automatically give him such a high rating. On that basis Valuev could very shortly be rated as an ATG.

[Purist]

Joe Louis dominated the weakest Heavyweight era . Marciano dominated the second weakest. Ali is the best

[LBSCFC]

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

You must note though thatAli got alot of altered judging in his fights... some fights there is no way he won(Ken Norton) and he won on name alone... Also against Henry Cooper he was knocked out, and they had to rip his glove so he would have more time to recuperate. Foreman states that he was drugged during their fight which no1 really knows but with all the other conspiracies behind Ali its plausible.

Foreman has retracted his statement about being drugged and has accepted he lost fair and square. He stated more than once that his biggest regret in his boxing career was making up excuses for his loss in the jungle, when he should have admitted there and then that Ali had out-witted him and taken away his heart by not folding under the barrage of punches. Big big respect for George, great man in and out of the ring, F****** legend.

As for Marciano, I've stated before that its difficult to compare fighters of different era's as boxing is an ever evolving sport, and different attributes are required to succed in different era's. Marciano certainly succeeded in his era, he had a solid chin, coupled with an unparalleled determination and heart, so does deserve to be mentioned with the other greats.

If you were to pluck a prime Marciano from his era, and stick him in the ring with Ali, I am confident that Ali would have administered a boxing lesson, with marciano's determination keeping him on his feet til the last bell.
Marciano's one punch power is overrated IMO also. While his punch on walcott was huge, it was a combination of the hayemaker thrown and the fact that Walcott was throwing his face right into it that made it so effective. Many of his other knockouts came from volume punching (with the odd illegal one here and there).
An excellent example is the Cockell fight, who was a limited fat middleweight. Rocky threw dozens and dozens of wild hooks putting everything into them, and nearly every one of them was landing cleanly through Don's non-existent defence, yet he stayed up for some time. I find it very hard to believe that he could have stayed on his feet for so long if he was fighting big hitters from later era's such as Foreman, frazier and Tyson. But this shouldn't take away from rocky's status as he did what he had to do, and came out on top every single time.

always very difficult comparing eras in any sport. whose to say marciano might not have worn ali down? im not saying he would but you cant say ali would annihilate marciano because its never happened

[El Kabong]

You can't fault Louis or Marciano for their competition they fought the best around and beat them soundly.

[New Wind]

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

You are absolutely right, they should not breath the same air - Ali was a pure loser with 5 or 6 defeats and iron fisted Marciano never tasted the defeat.

Ali was a racist disgrace for his country, Rocco Francis Marchegiano was patriotic

[undefeated]

You can't fault Louis or Marciano for their competition they fought the best around and beat them soundly.

that sums up perfectly why people should leave them alone(more so marciano than louis) and stop bitchin about opposition

[El Kabong]

Louis had "The bum of the month club" he knew who he was fighting but he made them look bad..25 successful defenses!!! How many did The Most Overrated Of All-Time(Ali) have?

Marciano survived being cut, being out worked, and being small and an underdog EVERY FIGHT HE HAD!!! Could KO a guy when he needed to and he was a true champion!

Both those guys carried themselves with class unlike Ali who was a loudmouth bastard

[zacbox]

Louis had "The bum of the month club" he knew who he was fighting but he made them look bad..25 successful defenses!!! How many did The Most Overrated Of All-Time(Ali) have?

Marciano survived being cut, being out worked, and being small and an underdog EVERY FIGHT HE HAD!!! Could KO a guy when he needed to and he was a true champion!

Both those guys carried themselves with class unlike Ali who was a loudmouth B******

Perhaps each man was a product of his times?

I'm not sure Louis would have been able to get a shot at the title if he;d have carried himself in the same way as Ali, and Marciano must have known in himself that he couldn't lay claim to be the Greatest.

I think Ali is hyped up, but to deny the man's record in the ring both as Amateur and Professional is plain stupid.