This is the future of the US........

[Punisher136]

KL for president.

p.s it's crap. Outsourcing doesn't save any money for the consumer, what it does is increase profits for the companies. Several big companies have relocated where it's cheaper and there are lax labour laws, has the cost of their product come down? No.


Iraq attacked you?  however you are right on one point. They do care about money more than they care about you.

Yes they did, several times at that in the 90's. In the conspirist or "the US is just a war mongering bully" world, everything that happened in the 90's is one isolated incident after another with seemingly no connection or link to one another.

Unless of course something like this happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oplan_Bojinka_plot

And in typical US government fashion, this was covered up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800 (Amazingly enough this happened on the anniversary of saddam's coup taking over iraq which was accompanied by saddam's most intense anti-US speech on the same day)

Scroll down to witnesses and you'll notice a very insteresting group of words : "No verbatim records of the witness interviews were produced; instead the agents who conducted the interviews wrote summaries of the interviews which they then submitted.[28] Witnesses were not asked to review or correct the documents" Sounds like they could've turned in anything they wanted. Possible reasons for inflight break-up is another good read.

This is the link to the other guy involved in oklahoma city: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Nichols
Key phrase here at the bottom of federal charges: Nichols made several trips to the Philippines in the months before the bombing. At this point i refer you to the fact that yousaf and khalid sheik muhammad(huge ties to al qaeda in iraq) where in the phillipines at roughly the same time planning oplan bojinka. THe same day that flight 800 happened khalid was heard speaking his native buluchi language which is from an area in kuwait while every other recorded phone call he made while in prison was done so with him speaking arabic.

Then again all this never happened and i'm just crazy huh?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Anti-Americanism my a**, I am for accepting the weak and the poor as long as they intend to become full American citizens......right now America is basically being INVADED by Mexicans.

Give them back California! you might as well throw in Nevada.

...I'm surprised you aren't going to quote the Communist Manifesto for us.

We already whipped their asses for all that land, I'll be damned if we're going to give it back.....but if any Hollywood crazies want to move to Mexico feel free, I won't cry about it.

Ever bothered to read it or does the very idea of politcal discourse make you ill?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

KL for president.

p.s it's crap. Outsourcing doesn't save any money for the consumer, what it does is increase profits for the companies. Several big companies have relocated where it's cheaper and there are lax labour laws, has the cost of their product come down? No.


Iraq attacked you? however you are right on one point. They do care about money more than they care about you.

Yes they did, several times at that in the 90's. In the conspirist or "the US is just a war mongering bully" world, everything that happened in the 90's is one isolated incident after another with seemingly no connection or link to one another.

Unless of course something like this happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oplan_Bojinka_plot

what episode of 24 was this?

I did say IRAQ and not abbu dabba screaming arab.

I see Sudan/Phillipines in the web based truth spew that is wikipedia but no Iraq.


Graphs and things in this topic are well wicked. You folks nearly lost the viewers but that brought the thread right back.

[Kirkland Laing]

BORDERS, LANGUAGE, CULTURE....is that too much to ask?

You can spout on about W or "undocumented immigrants" or whatever you want to but all I ask is that America keeps it's borders, language, and culture....that is it.


I do not believe in political correctness either...I know there are a few of your countrymen that don't appreciate it either

That somebody worked in the Clinton administration in no way alters all those pesky facts contained in that report. For instance, the fact that 'the government's Social Security Administration concluded that undocumented immigrants "account for a major portion of the billions of dollars paid into social security that don’t match SSA records," which payees, many of whom are undocumented immigrants, can never draw upon. As of July 2003, these payments totaled $421 billion' is a stubbornly real fact direct from the SS actuaries that is unspinnable.

You've already clearly demonstrated your aversion to facts and evidence so I'm sure these other facts won't alter that, you'll still go on believing what you want to. So in your mind immigrants cost America money in the same way that there were WMD in Iraq.

But this is all just a pathetic attempt to dodge answering the questions you've been dodging for days now. When presented with facts and asked to reply to those facts you run away like a Frenchman. Much easier just to rant away, isn't it, Frenchie?

[Kirkland Laing]

KL for president.

p.s it's crap. Outsourcing doesn't save any money for the consumer, what it does is increase profits for the companies. Several big companies have relocated where it's cheaper and there are lax labour laws, has the cost of their product come down? No.


Iraq attacked you? however you are right on one point. They do care about money more than they care about you.

Yes they did, several times at that in the 90's. In the conspirist or "the US is just a war mongering bully" world, everything that happened in the 90's is one isolated incident after another with seemingly no connection or link to one another.

Unless of course something like this happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oplan_Bojinka_plot

And in typical US government fashion, this was covered up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800 (Amazingly enough this happened on the anniversary of saddam's coup taking over iraq which was accompanied by saddam's most intense anti-US speech on the same day)

Scroll down to witnesses and you'll notice a very insteresting group of words : "No verbatim records of the witness interviews were produced; instead the agents who conducted the interviews wrote summaries of the interviews which they then submitted.[28] Witnesses were not asked to review or correct the documents" Sounds like they could've turned in anything they wanted. Possible reasons for inflight break-up is another good read.

This is the link to the other guy involved in oklahoma city: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Nichols
Key phrase here at the bottom of federal charges: Nichols made several trips to the Philippines in the months before the bombing. At this point i refer you to the fact that yousaf and khalid sheik muhammad(huge ties to al qaeda in iraq) where in the phillipines at roughly the same time planning oplan bojinka. THe same day that flight 800 happened khalid was heard speaking his native buluchi language which is from an area in kuwait while every other recorded phone call he made while in prison was done so with him speaking arabic.

Then again all this never happened and i'm just crazy huh?

Yet another conservative who runs away when presented with facts. I'm still waiting for a reply from you to this post, Monsieur ;

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...html#msg713128

Once you've replied to it I'll deal with this hilarious post.

When American conservatives come into contact with facts, their first instinct is to run away and pretend they don't exist. You're probably all secretly French. No wonder there's so much anti-Americanism in this thread.

[El Kabong]

Ever bothered to read it or does the very idea of politcal discourse make you ill?

The ideals of communism and socialism work on the idea that we live in a perfect world. They are good thoughts but dumb ideas because we don't live in a perfect world and we never will.

Capitalism works (especially in America) it's not always fair but it allows for verticle movement FOR EVERYONE the poor can become wealthy and the wealthy can become poor. It's an acheivement based system and I for one love the idea that you earn what you work for. How can you not love working towards a goal and acheiving and recieving due credit for your accomplishments If you were communist and you work hard you get the same thing the lazy motherfuckers get.....explain to me why anyone other than lazy people would want that!

Communism and Socialism allow for people to take advantage of the system...welfare has never and will never work for that reason.

Now that being said, I don't agree that every society should be capitalist or communist but I do love my capitalism and places like Cuba, China, North Korea, and Vietnam are communist but people aren't dying to try to break into those countries.

France has the right idea when it comes to borders, language, and culture. I totally disagree with the 30 hour work week but I respect other cultures but it's kind of hard to respect Iran and Iraq and other middle eastern nations when all we friggin hear everyday is "death to America" and "death to the Infidels"....it's been going on since before oil was ever used for anything...Crusades anyone Islam is a religion of peace only if you are muslim....if you're christian then you've got trouble.

The thing is the muslims of the west are turning our own laws against us, they are playing the role of victim and praying on our drive to be politically correct. Meanwhile in the Middle East they are anything but tolerant of the west and cut people's heads off and stone people to death and so on....they have a double standard, not the west!

The only anti-Americanism is coming from your posts

[El Kabong]

....also KL you bash Reagan however you conveniantly forget that in the past 100 years the American people only wanted more than 2 terms for 2 guys.

1. Franklin D. Roosevelt - innovator and very successful President, made Americans proud and drug them out of a deep hole called the Great Depression before leading the US to victory in World War II and he served 4 terms and died in office.....after which there was an amendment to the Constitution limiting serving to 2 terms.

and

2. Ronald Reagan (affected by the 22nd Amendment) - A legend who broke down the Berlin Wall and crippled communism, ended the Cold War, and who made Americans proud of their country and had huge approval ratings.....I mean he carried 44 out of the 50 states vs Carter taking 50.7 % of the vote and then he thumped Mondale!

Reagan's 525 electoral votes (out of 53 is the highest total ever received by a presidential candidate. In the national popular vote, Reagan received 58.8% to Mondale's 40.6%.


GALLUP POLL: Ronald Reagan's Approval Ratings

Date Event                               Approval (%) Disapproval (%)
March 30 1981 Shot by Hinckley               73            19

January 22 1983 High unemployment          42            54

April 26 1986 Libya bombing                     70             26

February 26 1987 Iran-Contra affair           44             51

January 20 1989 End of presidency –
n/a Career Average                                  57           39

July 30, 2001 (Retrospective)[154]              64           27

....he usually ranks in the top 5 but a Gallup Poll in 2001 rated him #1


But that's just us AMERICANS saying who the best is....we're really dying to know what you Brits think of us 

[Kirkland Laing]

....also KL you bash Reagan however you conveniantly forget that in the past 100 years the American people only wanted more than 2 terms for 2 guys.

1. Franklin D. Roosevelt - innovator and very successful President, made Americans proud and drug them out of a deep hole called the Great Depression before leading the US to victory in World War II and he served 4 terms and died in office.....after which there was an amendment to the Constitution limiting serving to 2 terms.

and

2. Ronald Reagan (affected by the 22nd Amendment) - A legend who broke down the Berlin Wall and crippled communism, ended the Cold War, and who made Americans proud of their country and had huge approval ratings.....I mean he carried 44 out of the 50 states vs Carter taking 50.7 % of the vote and then he thumped Mondale!

Reagan's 525 electoral votes (out of 53 is the highest total ever received by a presidential candidate. In the national popular vote, Reagan received 58.8% to Mondale's 40.6%.


GALLUP POLL: Ronald Reagan's Approval Ratings

Date Event Approval (%) Disapproval (%)
March 30 1981 Shot by Hinckley 73 19

January 22 1983 High unemployment 42 54

April 26 1986 Libya bombing 70 26

February 26 1987 Iran-Contra affair 44 51

January 20 1989 End of presidency –
n/a Career Average 57 39

July 30, 2001 (Retrospective)[154] 64 27

....he usually ranks in the top 5 but a Gallup Poll in 2001 rated him #1


But that's just us AMERICANS saying who the best is....we're really dying to know what you Brits think of us

[El Kabong]

You know you are welcome in the US anytime no matter your political views....just so long as you come in legally and don't try to lead some violent coup against our government.

I will respect English laws and culture if I ever go there, I had no issues in France or Belgium when I was there summer before last...very nice people, although everything is smaller over there, it's like fucking munchkin land....but that's ok I understand the buildings I stayed in were well over 100 years old

[El Kabong]

....and I don't know of anything that I have posted that's "anti-American".


Please explain this to me, I would love to read it

[Kirkland Laing]

You know you are welcome in the US anytime no matter your political views....just so long as you come in legally and don't try to lead some violent coup against our government.

I will respect English laws and culture if I ever go there, I had no issues in France or Belgium when I was there summer before last...very nice people, although everything is smaller over there, it's like fucking munchkin land....but that's ok I understand the buildings I stayed in were well over 100 years old

[El Kabong]

I love how someone who is BRITISH thinks I am anti-American....pretty odd seeing how I vote, pay taxes, and grew up here.

You must have had quite a visit over here to become so opinionated about American politics

[bcollins]

Ever bothered to read it or does the very idea of politcal discourse make you ill?

The ideals of communism and socialism work on the idea that we live in a perfect world. They are good thoughts but dumb ideas because we don't live in a perfect world and we never will.

Capitalism works (especially in America) it's not always fair but it allows for verticle movement FOR EVERYONE the poor can become wealthy and the wealthy can become poor. It's an acheivement based system and I for one love the idea that you earn what you work for. How can you not love working towards a goal and acheiving and recieving due credit for your accomplishments If you were communist and you work hard you get the same thing the lazy motherfuckers get.....explain to me why anyone other than lazy people would want that!

Communism and Socialism allow for people to take advantage of the system...welfare has never and will never work for that reason.

Now that being said, I don't agree that every society should be capitalist or communist but I do love my capitalism and places like Cuba, China, North Korea, and Vietnam are communist but people aren't dying to try to break into those countries.

France has the right idea when it comes to borders, language, and culture. I totally disagree with the 30 hour work week but I respect other cultures but it's kind of hard to respect Iran and Iraq and other middle eastern nations when all we friggin hear everyday is "death to America" and "death to the Infidels"....it's been going on since before oil was ever used for anything...Crusades anyone Islam is a religion of peace only if you are muslim....if you're christian then you've got trouble.

The thing is the muslims of the west are turning our own laws against us, they are playing the role of victim and praying on our drive to be politically correct. Meanwhile in the Middle East they are anything but tolerant of the west and cut people's heads off and stone people to death and so on....they have a double standard, not the west!

The only anti-Americanism is coming from your posts

Lyle, you're a very interesting person. I appreciate your passion for these types of debates, but overall, I tend to disagree with you on these arguments. I do agree that communism and socialism aren't the most effective forms of government and that they have inherent flaws that can be manipulated for personal gain. However, I also put capitalism in the same category. While the system we have does allow for the poor to become rich, and vice versa, and reward people for hard work, there are a few things you've overlooked.

While there is the opportunity for less fortunate citizens to move up the social scale, the sad reality is that it rarely happens. Most American citizens work their asses off with very little significant gain. The truth is that Capitalism creates an environment where greed is the rule of the day. The select wealthy minority essentially feeds off of the much poorer workforce. In my opinion, this is the exact manipulation of the system inherent in both communism and socialism, except backwards. In those systems, the poor can feed off the system - in capitalism, the wealthy manipulate the system for profit. Which is worse? How can we compare the two? You might argue that the manipulation of the system by the wealthy has the effect of bolstering the economy, which is true to some extent. But does that have a significant impact on improving the quality of life for the average citizen? That's a much more difficult question to answer.

My problem with capitalism is that it venerates wealth as the ideal for which to strive. It equates money with goodness, which I wholeheartedly disagree with. My brother in law asks the same types of questions - am I willing to pay more taxes so that the poor can suck on the government tit? Basically, I say yes. While there is the possibility of vertical movement through the social strata, the system in place actually prohibits such movement. Spreading a little of the wealth back around to the poorer citizens is a means of making up for the screwing that the average citizen gets on a daily basis.

[Kirkland Laing]

I love how someone who is BRITISH thinks I am anti-American....pretty odd seeing how I vote, pay taxes, and grew up here.

You must have had quite a visit over here to become so opinionated about American politics

[LEGION]

I love how someone who is BRITISH thinks I am anti-American....pretty odd seeing how I vote, pay taxes, and grew up here.

You must have had quite a visit over here to become so opinionated about American politics

Want to explain that picture? Or are you just implying Lyle should just give up? Just curious if there is something more to it?