Quote Originally Posted by Punisher136
Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Quote Originally Posted by Punisher136

The economy is only growing expodentially faster for people who already have more money than they know what to do with. The middle class is quickly losing ground. They can't take a job with humane working conditions or benefits because companies can't afford to do that. It's insourcing a job instead of outsourcing, they're both just as bad for the middle class (which i'll remind you composes a VAST majority of america).

Companies are closing left and right because they refuse to break the law to make ends meet. I don't know where you live, but where i live, 2 major factories just shut down. Those jobs paid atleast $15 an hour. Those jobs are no longer available because they wouldn't cut benefits to their employees or hire cheap labor. Since you wanna use numbers, thats about 1,000 people out of a job with benefits which now adds to the strain on the government to provide for them. Thats right the government, not democrats (pc crazy hippies in denial of their own mental illiness), not republicans (fat old rich "god sent" leaders), the government.

Regardless of party lines, they all have special interest groups they lean towards to get elected. The democrats favor the gays (biggest mental illiness group on their roster) and angry minorites who they've brainwashed into thinking they are victims. The republicans favor the delusional churches and any business that will throw money at them.

All they care about is money which is funny because the way they're all going, nobody that lives here will have any to give them after the insane taxes that they'd need to collect to balance their policies and the money they do collect won't be worth anything as they continually destroy the dollars value day in and day out. Atleast they can burn it to keep them warm in the winter when energy companies get run out of business. Have you been to a small middle class town with in the past 10 years? They've mostly all degraded into drug havens as their isn't a good legitimate way to make money there anymore.

Again i will remind you that the iraq war wasn't started because of oil in the 00's, it was prevented from happening in the 90's because of oil. In the 90's, they (iraq's government) bombed us domestically twice (first world trade center, oklahoma city) as well as try to take the life of bush senior (overseas). If you believe in the 9-11 conspiracy you are an idiot because you would also need to explain how the government was behind those two attacks as well as flight 800 (and the bombing over in somalia). They had WMD's at one time (go in nothern iraq and look at the mass graves made for the thousands killed by chemical weapons) and thats a good enough lie to get in there because the truth would be really hard to accept.

The truth is we were attacked and they (our government) put the money we were making from "peace" ahead of the general security of the people that live here. This is a consistant pattern of action that is being taken today. They bring in millions of illegal workers just to save a couple cents in production costs. Those few cents are more important to them than the people that elected them to office.
Yes, unquestionably the American middle class are starting to suffer from globalisation. But they're also suffering because since Reagan there's been a shift in the tax burden from the top 1% of earners to the middle and lower income brackets. Middle class taxes are too high because they're gradually being given a greater share of the overall tax burden over the past thirty years. Reagan and Bush 41 shafted the middle/lower incomes in the 80s/90s and sent their taxes skyrocketing, then George Bush 43 got the very same dummies to vote for him in 2000 because their taxes were too high. And again, the mentally ill people are the ones voting GOP who don't earn more than $250 K pa. The people voting Democratic actually mostly have a clue what's going on in the world.


Even dumbass George Bush admitted Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and nowhere did I mention any conspiracy theories about 9/11, so it's you with the idiotic theories, not me. There are only a small bunch of dead-enders, the Bush Fedayeen, who continue to believe looney tune stuff like that, because they can't admit they were lied into an illegal war for oil.

The Iraq war was indeed started because of oil. You can't name a single thing we've done in the Middle East since WW2 that wasn't to maintain and extend our control of the oil reserves there. All the problems we're now facing from Islamic terrorism are due to our actions in the region over the last half century. Like Iran, for instance. If we hadn't overthrown a democratically elected secular government and replaced it with a military dictatorship in the 1950s because they made the mistake of thinking they owned their own oilfields then there'd never have been an Iranian problem for us to deal with.
The conflict between muslims and jews/ christians predates america and infact started back during the roman empire. Even then muslim groups had the belief that only their religion was right and would threaten people in the middle east to either join it or lose their life. A branch of muslims have been taught generation after generation from its 600a.d. or so inception to hate christians and jews and any such power in the world. They would've attacked us no matter what, good thing we're fixing the problem now. Luckily they are too dumb to advance on their own and weren't even a threat until they had an operative steal one of our military training manuals (he was given this chance because we have to be nice to everybody in america).

The middle class has to pay so many taxes now because the US population has grown far beyond a natural and regulated level in a very short period of time. We would always have to pay taxes, but they wouldn't be as bad if there wasn't millions of more people pouring in each year than is necessary. And you think that the democratic solution of making a universal healthcare system is gonna fix that? The dollar is collapsing and we're in debt bad enough right now (insert your bullshit idea of how thats all bush seniors fault when the national debt existed far before he came into office. Yes he's an idiot and hasn't really done anything productive in anyway, but one man cannot bring down america). You wanna laugh at bushes tax cut, wait til you see what that does to the american economy.

Earlier this year, liberal crazy california passed a law that gave all of its state workers extra medical coverage to include such things as hormone therapy and sex change surgeries. I don't care what bullshit ideology you were raised on, that's not normal or acceptable. If someone was ment to be a woman they would've been born a woman. The purpose of any living animal is to perpetuate its species. Running with the logic that someone was "born" gay implies that they serve a much higher purpose in the world and seeing that a good bit of them are very anti-religion, that doesn't pan out either.
In 1953, Iran was a secular democratic country. Their prime minister was Time Magazine's Man of The Year for bringing democracy to his country. But they made the mistake of thinking they controlled their own oil, so we overthrew their government and installed and trained and propped up for decades a military dictatorship that tortured or killed at least one member of every Iranian family. The anger against us built up and led to the Iranian revolution in 1979. That's why they don't like us very much.

The middle class pay more taxes because the GOP since Reagan have tilted the tax burden their way.

Immigrants even according to a rightwing think tank only cost ten billion a year. In a thriteen trillion economy that's a rounding error.

Undocumenteds can't claim benefits so if they're not working they can't stay in America. They're all there working, dude. They're there to earn money. All the lazy Mexicans stay at home.

The parts of the US healthcare system that are the most efficient are the parts that are currently socialised. The parts that are corporate welfare are the ones that make US healthcare the world's most expensive by far.

The dollar is collapsing because Bush is printing epic quantities of them to prevent the economy going into recession on his watch. Look here :

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=3870728

The Fed keeps making these "temporary injections" every few weeks now. All it is is more dollars printed to keep the economy from tanking.

Here's a piece of art for you :

At the hearing, Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, chairman of the Joint Economic Committee, urged Mr. Bernanke to act more aggressively to stimulate the economy. "I’m very concerned that there may be a bigger storm on the horizon," he said.

But Mr. Bernanke refused to budge. Indeed, he referred first to the Fed’s attention to "price stability" and second to its interest in "sustainable growth."

That did little to cheer lawmakers. In an early sign of the political pressure that the Fed is likely to face if the economy falters next year, Senator Brownback, who recently abandoned his Republican campaign for president, pleaded with Mr. Bernanke to cut interest rates in time for the Christmas shopping season.

"It seems to me that now is the time," Mr. Brownback said. "When those gas prices get up to $3 a gallon, it seems to hit some sort of psychological point in consumer’s mind that 'I have less to spend,' and that’s a reality for them."


New York Times
November 8, 2007




If prices went up, people demanded not a stable purchasing power for the marks they had, but more marks to buy what they needed. More marks were printed, and more, and more.

Adam Fergusson
When Money Dies


How about that? I'm an installation artist. I'm Saddoboxing's answer to Salvador Dali.

We're cutting interest rates to fuel more easy money and printing the stuff faster than we can lend it. It's like 1930s Germany.

Yes the national debt existed, but under Clinton the budget turned into surplus for the first time in generations and we actually paid the national debt down for two years until Bush cut taxes and revenues cratered.

One man probably can't bring down America, but he's trying as hard as he can.

We don't have to wait to see how things turned out with Bush's tax cuts, here we are :

Tax revenues have always doubled every ten years, which helps them just about keep pace with inflation and increased spending. Inflation and spending are increasing hugely under Bush, so we'd better hope those tax cuts are boosting revenues for the future, right? Let's look at the numbers, with historical numbers included for a bit of context :

In 1950 we had $45 billion in revenues, which jumped to $91 by 1960. The link only shows from 1962, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

From $91 billion in 1960, we jumped to $192 billion in 1970.

In 1980, revenues jumped to a massive $517 billion, although the extra revenue was inflation caused by two disastrous external oil price spikes beyond our control.

By 1990, revenues had jumped from $517 to $1032 billion, again doubling.

In 2000, revenues had doubled again from $1032 to $2025.

Bush's 2001 tax cut was backdated to Q1 2001, so the cut was in place from the first day of fiscal year 2001. So by 2005, we should have been looking at revenues in the region of $3000 billion plus the extra revenue growth from the tax cuts, right?

Here are the numbers :

2000 : $2025

Bush tax cut

2001 : $1991

2002 : $1853

Bush tax cut

2003 : $1782

2004 : $1880

2005 : $2153


Here are the numbers for income tax, the tax that is supposed to grow the most in response to a cut :

1960 : $41.7 billion

1970 : $90.4

1980 : $244.1

1990 : $466.9

2000 : $1004.5

Bush tax cut

2001 : $994.3

2002 : $858.3

Bush tax cut

2003 : $793.7

2004 : $809.0

2005 : $927.2

2006 : $1043.9


http://www.cbo.gov/budget/historical.shtml



So instead of hitting $4000 billion in revenues by the end of the decade, we're looking at over a trillion dollars a year shortfall. In a $13 trillion economy that's a big chunk of money. Obviously, taxes are going to go through the roof soon to cover that 25% revenue shortfall.

Can you guess who'll be paying that extra trillion a year, the top 1% who've doubled their share of the national income since 1980, or low/middle income earners ?

That's an impressive amount to get wrong in one short paragraph. Are you trying to set a world record?


As for the last paragraph it just makes me happy that religious conservatives are a minority in the societies of the liberal west and not the majority as in Middle Eastern countries.