Quote Originally Posted by Britkid
Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan
While you obviously know a lot about boxing history, Britkid, it's always been just as obvious to me that your "alltime" lists seem slightly skewed "geographically speaking." I can't help noticing how none of the famous Puerto Rican fighters made your list. And yet you seem to have a lot of British fighters in there that the majority of the boxing fan base on this side of the world hasn't even heard of.

I have a lot of issues with your "list." Felix Trinidad and Wilfredo Gomez not on there, when you have other dubious entries in there? Carlos Zarate? Didn't Gomez take him apart at the peak of his career? Surely you'll have a "historical" answer for that, complete with dates, names and anecdotes.

For my money, however, "alltime" lists are highly subjective and yours is no exception.
Hope you understand.

TitoFan
Like you say TitoFan these lists are purely subjective, and indeed mine is absolutely no exception.

But to answer a couple of your points:

I have two British fighter in my top 50; Jimmy Wilde and Bob Fitzsimmons. And Fitzsimmons is a very dubious 'honorary' Brit.

As for the Puerto Rican thing, honestly it is nothing personal, your country is an amazing producer of superb boxing talent. I have Trinidad rated #49 in my list, Gomez #63 and Benitez #46.

As for the Zarate thing; like I said to Atomic Bull, IMO rating the greats is not as simple as who beat who. Zarate was at the pinnacle of his career as a Bantamweight, during which, he put some amazing numbers together. Gomez was a brilliant 122lber, but despite still being at his peak, Sanchez found him out that night he moved to 126lbs, and that damaged his legacy.
Again, let me state why I think "all-time" lists are entirely subjective and cases can be made for many fighters included in some lists and left off others.

You rank Chavez 15th on your list, while Trinidad, Gomez and Benitez are all out of your top 40. And yet, I've stated in other posts where I think Chavez's record is very much overrated, as is his standings on your all-time list.

You list as your first factor for rating fighters being: "Quality of Opposition."
Let's see a few facts:

1. Chavez's opponents cumulative records was a losing record through Chavez's first 45 fights (45 fights!!).

2. Here's a sampling of some of Chavez's opponents records very much into his career:

a) 45th opponent: 1-6-0 record
b) 52nd opponent: 1-12-0 record
c) 67th opponent: 0-0-0 record
d) 80th opponent: 1-0-0 record

Fighting bums at this stage in your career?!? Hmmmm.....

3. Chavez's first 37 fights were ALL in Mexico. His 38th fight? He fought the "great" Jerry Lewis (the boxer, not the comedian) in California. Chavez had already KO'ed Lewis less than two months earlier in Mexico, when Lewis was 6-3-0 at the time. Not exactly a stretch. Chavez's first quality opponent outside of Mexico came a little later.

Let's talk about opponents winning percentage. Trinidad, who you rated as 49th, fought opponents with a combined winning percentage of 84.3% throughout his famed 44-fight career.

By contrast, Chavez's opponents winning percentage by his 44th fight was a measly 46.5%. He later improved on those numbers as he continued to pad his record.

As far as Wilfredo Gomez being 63rd, that just leads me to believe you have some serious gaps in your knowledge of Latin boxers, of which Puerto Rico has more than its share of champs. Very few boxers in history can boast a higher KO percentage than Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez throughout his career. His KO over Carlos Zarate, undefeated and a rising Mexican superstar at the time, is an all-time classic. And his two losses were to Salvador Sanchez and Azumah Nelson, all-time greats in their own right.