60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.

[smashcrusher]

Floyd Mayweather 39-0

Sugar Ray Leonard 36-3-1

Take a seat, you've been dismissed

[spanky-banky]

#1 hw is a toss up between louis and ali.........

i really cant decide though i am leaning towards ali due to way better competition even though louis reigned for so long.

they are both great champs but i probably see it like this.............top 5
#1...ALI
#2...LOUIS
#3...TYSON
#4...LEWIS
#5...FRAZIER,JOHNSON,LISTON,FOREMAN,HOLMES....TIED , cause i cant make up my mind on #5

but i wouldnt put marciano in top #5 just cause he fought shit opposition .

....and every one of these fighters i mentioned would beat him PRIME 4 PRIME

[ICB]

#1 hw is a toss up between louis and ali.........

i really cant decide though i am leaning towards ali due to way better competition even though louis reigned for so long.

they are both great champs but i probably see it like this.............top 5
#1...ALI
#2...LOUIS
#3...TYSON
#4...LEWIS
#5...FRAZIER,JOHNSON,LISTON,FOREMAN,HOLMES....TIED , cause i cant make up my mind on #5

but i wouldnt put marciano in top #5 just cause he fought S*** opposition .

....and every one of these fighters i mentioned would beat him PRIME 4 PRIME

Tyson at number 3 ?? you have to be kidding me. I know your Tyson fan but come on be realistic no way is Tyson top 3. He isn't even top 5 let alone top 3.

[El Kabong]

Floyd Mayweather 39-0

Sugar Ray Leonard 36-3-1

Take a seat, you've been dismissed

What are you trying to prove by this, that Floyd is greater than Ray or that eventhough Ray lost he's still greater than Floyd


Our argument is that Ali isn't the greatest of all time....and I stick by my top 3.

#1 Joe Louis
#2 Rocky Marciano
#3 Muhammed Ali

[ICB]

Floyd Mayweather 39-0

Sugar Ray Leonard 36-3-1

Take a seat, you've been dismissed

So thats your logic huh ?? well Marciano had 49-0, so using your logic Marciano is greater than both of them. Talk about walking right into it

[Mr140]

Well SRl lost to Duran who is in the top10 greatest of all time and pound for pound list and SRL won more and his draw was later in his career and his losses were when he was 35 and 41 so losses do not matter as much as people think if PBF fought till he was 41 and lost would you count it against him no i do not think you would. records are not always the best thing to go off of so do not buy to much into them.

[cockey cockney]

Well SRl lost to Duran who is in the top10 greatest of all time and pound for pound list and SRL won more and his draw was later in his career and his losses were when he was 35 and 41 so losses do not matter as much as people think if PBF fought till he was 41 and lost would you count it against him no i do not think you would. records are not always the best thing to go off of so do not buy to much into them.

precisely mate your spot on....ok so ray lost 3 fights. Only ONE in reality becuase the Camacho and Norris fights where a shadow of what SRL was at his best. People say Hagler beat him....not IMO leonard edged that one but it was close....oh yeah and he gotta BS draw against hearns, but win/lose/draw that fight it really made no difference to either of there legacys becuase it wasnt them at there best anymore. Remember aswell the fact Leonard had to retire because of a detached retina...who knows how many fights he could of racked up in that time...for all we know he could of fought hearns again and beaten him again!

[ICB]

Well SRl lost to Duran who is in the top10 greatest of all time and pound for pound list and SRL won more and his draw was later in his career and his losses were when he was 35 and 41 so losses do not matter as much as people think if PBF fought till he was 41 and lost would you count it against him no i do not think you would. records are not always the best thing to go off of so do not buy to much into them.

precisely mate your spot on....ok so ray lost 3 fights. Only ONE in reality becuase the Camacho and Norris fights where a shadow of what SRL was at his best. People say Hagler beat him....not IMO leonard edged that one but it was close....oh yeah and he gotta BS draw against hearns, but win/lose/draw that fight it really made no difference to either of there legacys becuase it wasnt them at there best anymore. Remember aswell the fact Leonard had to retire because of a detached retina...who knows how many fights he could of racked up in that time...for all we know he could of fought hearns again and beaten him again!

I always thought that Leonard is better than Hearns over 15 rounds, and Hearns is better than Leonard over 12 rounds.

[cockey cockney]

Well SRl lost to Duran who is in the top10 greatest of all time and pound for pound list and SRL won more and his draw was later in his career and his losses were when he was 35 and 41 so losses do not matter as much as people think if PBF fought till he was 41 and lost would you count it against him no i do not think you would. records are not always the best thing to go off of so do not buy to much into them.

precisely mate your spot on....ok so ray lost 3 fights. Only ONE in reality becuase the Camacho and Norris fights where a shadow of what SRL was at his best. People say Hagler beat him....not IMO leonard edged that one but it was close....oh yeah and he gotta BS draw against hearns, but win/lose/draw that fight it really made no difference to either of there legacys becuase it wasnt them at there best anymore. Remember aswell the fact Leonard had to retire because of a detached retina...who knows how many fights he could of racked up in that time...for all we know he could of fought hearns again and beaten him again!

I always thought that Leonard is better than Hearns over 15 rounds, and Hearns is better than Leonard over 12 rounds.

But who you take as the better boxer ICB??

[pacdog]

i luagh my ass off when people say joe louis a legendary fighter but way too small, hed lose to some super middles today, roy jones junior would murder joe louis and hes a small man be realistic

[Trainer Monkey]

i luagh my a** off when people say joe louis a legendary fighter but way too small, hed lose to some super middles today, roy jones junior would murder joe louis and hes a small man be realistic

I laugh my ass off when people dont realise Louis was 6'2"

[El Kabong]

i luagh my ass off when people say joe louis a legendary fighter but way too small, hed lose to some super middles today, roy jones junior would murder joe louis and hes a small man be realistic

Joe Louis was plenty big and he could have KO'd Roy Jones Jr. along with a lot of other fighters

[zhubin]

Floyd Mayweather 39-0

Sugar Ray Leonard 36-3-1

Take a seat, you've been dismissed

You cannot always go by a fighter's record. Leonard fought in a much tougher era and beat much better competition than Floyd.

[undefeated]

#1 hw is a toss up between louis and ali.........

i really cant decide though i am leaning towards ali due to way better competition even though louis reigned for so long.

they are both great champs but i probably see it like this.............top 5
#1...ALI
#2...LOUIS
#3...TYSON
#4...LEWIS
#5...FRAZIER,JOHNSON,LISTON,FOREMAN,HOLMES....TIED , cause i cant make up my mind on #5

but i wouldnt put marciano in top #5 just cause he fought S*** opposition .

....and every one of these fighters i mentioned would beat him PRIME 4 PRIME

i agree with ali as #1 --but louis opposition was the same quality as marcianos-even some of the same --walcott ,charles-i think if people put down marciano 4 his opposition, they need 2 put down louis as well. but your top 5 is a good list overall.

[Punisher136]

The ali from '66 beats anybody. At that point in his career his speed and movement were at their absolute peak. And he had a chin so it's not a matter of catching him with a lucky punch, it's a matter of consistantly connecting and nobody throughout the history of the heavyweight division had the necessary package of speed (both with punches and ring movement), skill, or stamina (many had any two of the three but never all three) to keep enough pressure on him to beat him.

I got a dvd for christmas which lists the top 10 heavyweights of all time according to burt sugar (a very good espn ringside dvd with old fight footage for dempsey and even jack johnson). Holmes was 10th which made me an instant fan of the dvd. He gave louis the nod over ali and when confronted with larry's (who was present so they could tell him he was number 10 ) view point of louis would never catch ali, burt said that head to head matchups were not part of his criteria. And he put 25 title defenses (22 by ko) ahead of ali's resume. He also admitted he may have had a bias seeing as louis was his hero growing up.

So if you're comparing in a head-to-head mtach up to determine hypothetical greatness, ali has to be the favorite but if you want to compare greatness on the scale of just what each guy did in his era, there's room for debate there.